Scarcity of Princesses in the Late Game

[Soryn Arkayn]

A frustrating part of the late game of campaigns is the scarcity of foreign princesses to marry to your faction leader or heir. Usually between Turn 100-150 I've completed the Long Campaign, so I rule a majority of the map and have destroyed many factions, which leaves few factions to create new Princesses.

Also, since I play VH/VH campaigns, the few Princesses there are tend to make poor wives; they often have Secret Loves or some negative traits that result in "Wife lacks Charm" traits for my Faction Leader or Heir after they marry them, which decreases their chance of having children and means fewer family members.

I don't know what can be done about this because you can't avoid eliminating factions and therefore deplete the pool of Princesses. But in the late game it's even rare for a suitable bride to randomly appear for your Faction Leader or Heir to marry, so there are instances in which a Faction Leader won't marry at all, even if they reign for decades, all because a suitable wife can't be found. I suppose the best solution would be to increase the occurrence of suitable brides to appear if your Faction Leader or Heir isn't married yet. That way it wouldn't matter as much if there aren't any foreign Princesses for your Royal Family to marry.

[Sokar Rostau]

I liked the incest traits in MTW. If no suitable bride showed up within a few turns the King married the daughter of a noble... then you'd start getting things like heirs with extra toes and stuff. It's not as if that never happened, there's diseases common to the royal families of Europe because of it.

Apparently you could marry your own King to your own Princess if you wanted... but it was supposed to have very bad results so I never tried it. 'Twould be fun, though, no?

[Darkarbiter]

Do we get videos? Like with assasins?

[malcolm mcdowell]

I liked the incest traits in MTW. If no suitable bride showed up within a few turns the King married the daughter of a noble... then you'd start getting things like heirs with extra toes and stuff. It's not as if that never happened, there's diseases common to the royal families of Europe because of it.

i thought you only got incest traits from marrying your princesses to you sons... after all, there is no reason to suggest that all nobles were related to the royal family.

[Sokar Rostau]

And not all of the children from noble marriages would get the traits, either, but they would occur down the generations. I remember one trait that mentions the person having less than the usual number of great-grandparents.

[Soryn Arkayn]

Okay, this thread has gotten a little off track.

My point was that because M2:TW is about conquering opposing factions, by the mid-to-late game there are fewer factions and therefore fewer foreign Princesses available. That's an inherent and inevitable problem, which probably can't be fixed.

But my point is that if your Faction Leader or Heir isn't married after a few turns, a potential bride should randomly be presented so he can be married to produce children. In most of my campaigns by the late game most of my Faction Leaders remain unmarried or childless because there are so few foreign Princesses available and the few that there are almost always having poor traits that reduce the chances of having children. Seriously, in my current campaign my Faction Leader has the "Virile" trait but because his "Wife is a Wretch" they haven't had any children after 20 turns, and it's really annoying. I didn't want to make the same mistake for my Faction Heir (who doesn't have the Virile trait) so I didn't marry him to the Hungarian Princess -- who is the only princess available -- in hope that a Danish, Sicilian, Polish, or another Russian Princess appears soon.

I don't know why CA decided to take out the option to allow your Faction Leader or Heir marry a mere nobleman's daughter instead of forcing them to marry a Princess; it's just stupid.

[miccofl]

Okay, this thread has gotten a little off track.

My point was that because M2:TW is about conquering opposing factions, by the mid-to-late game there are fewer factions and therefore fewer foreign Princesses available. That's an inherent and inevitable problem, which probably can't be fixed.

But my point is that if your Faction Leader or Heir isn't married after a few turns, a potential bride should randomly be presented so he can be married to produce children. In most of my campaigns by the late game most of my Faction Leaders remain unmarried or childless because there are so few foreign Princesses available and the few that there are almost always having poor traits that reduce the chances of having children. Seriously, in my current campaign my Faction Leader has the "Virile" trait but because his "Wife is a Wretch" they haven't had any children after 20 turns, and it's really annoying. I didn't want to make the same mistake for my Faction Heir (who doesn't have the Virile trait) so I didn't marry him to the Hungarian Princess -- who is the only princess available -- in hope that a Danish, Sicilian, Polish, or another Russian Princess appears soon.

At least I'm not the only one who has this problem. I have resigned myself to the fact that the only way to continue the royal line is to cheat In my current campaign (English;DLV4.03PE) I removed the FOW and scouted the map for princesses for my two years away from coming of age 6th generation heir; there was an old Russian snob, a Teutonic spinster, a Teutonic snob, a Hungarian snob, a Hungarian spinster and then this 15 yr. old 7 charm Sicilian sweetie landed on the Venice bridge and did the usual failed diplomacy. With two turns left before the boy came of age I put a small stack right behind her and trapped her there. Fortunately for me, there were no available Sicilian generals for them to marry her to and she was still there when the lad came of age. Problem at that point was I had four generations alive and had to kill off his granddad and great-granddad before I could get them hitched TGF Rebel stacks He now has two sons and is working on more although I fear if I eliminate any more factions there will be nothing available when gen7 comes of age but only time will tell.

With ~70 settlements controlled and only 21 generals one would think that the game mechanics would be throwing all kinds of brides up but unfortunately that is not the case and I am forced to believe that either the game is flawed in this area or there is a bug/glitch that I am somehow triggering that prevents the game from producing brides as the only way I seem to get married family members is when I accept one of those useless generals that are offered to daughters and they are always on a branch of the family I have no desire to continue. TGF Rebel stacks

[Soryn Arkayn]

At least I'm not the only one who has this problem. I have resigned myself to the fact that the only way to continue the royal line is to cheat In my current campaign (English;DLV4.03PE) I removed the FOW and scouted the map for princesses for my two years away from coming of age 6th generation heir; there was an old Russian snob, a Teutonic spinster, a Teutonic snob, a Hungarian snob, a Hungarian spinster and then this 15 yr. old 7 charm Sicilian sweetie landed on the Venice bridge and did the usual failed diplomacy. With two turns left before the boy came of age I put a small stack right behind her and trapped her there. Fortunately for me, there were no available Sicilian generals for them to marry her to and she was still there when the lad came of age. Problem at that point was I had four generations alive and had to kill off his granddad and great-granddad before I could get them hitched TGF Rebel stacks He now has two sons and is working on more although I fear if I eliminate any more factions there will be nothing available when gen7 comes of age but only time will tell.

With ~70 settlements controlled and only 21 generals one would think that the game mechanics would be throwing all kinds of brides up but unfortunately that is not the case and I am forced to believe that either the game is flawed in this area or there is a bug/glitch that I am somehow triggering that prevents the game from producing brides as the only way I seem to get married family members is when I accept one of those useless generals that are offered to daughters and they are always on a branch of the family I have no desire to continue. TGF Rebel stacks

That's a clever trick.

Unfortunately that wouldn't work for me because there are simply so few factions left that Princesses are extremely scarce. I have spies in virtually every province and there's only one Princess available, and she has zero charm so she's a guaranteed wretch, or worse.

[Sher Khan]

Uh, if you just sit tight for a while, your faction heir and leader will be given proposals to marry normal noblewomen. You don't HAVE to marry them to royal princesses.

[Soryn Arkayn]

Uh, if you just sit tight for a while, your faction heir and leader will be given proposals to marry normal noblewomen. You don't HAVE to marry them to royal princesses.

That is totally false! That happened in the original Medieval:TW, but it doesn't occur in M2:TW. It only happens for Family Members who aren't the Faction Leader or Heir, and even then it is ridiculously rare because the majority of my family members never get married, even though I always marry them off whenever a noble bride is presented.

This is just another broken game mechanic in M2:TW that has been around since the game's release and CA has never bothered to fix.

[Sher Khan]

That is totally false! That happened in the original Medieval:TW, but it doesn't occur in M2:TW. It only happens for Family Members who aren't the Faction Leader or Heir, and even then it is ridiculously rare because the majority of my family members never get married, even though I always marry them off whenever a noble bride is presented.

This is just another broken game mechanic in M2:TW that has been around since the game's release and CA has never bothered to fix.

.... what?

I rarely EVER use foreign princesses to marry off my king and heir. They've always ALWAYS been offered brides. This, I'm sure of.

[Soryn Arkayn]

.... what?

I rarely EVER use foreign princesses to marry off my king and heir. They've always ALWAYS been offered brides. This, I'm sure of.

Firstly, what version of Medieval2:Total War are you using? Do you have Kingdoms installed?

Second, can anyone else weigh in on this subject, because I can honestly say that my Faction Leader and Heir have never been randomly offered a noble bride. I've had foreign factions offer their Princess on a couple occassions, but I don't ever recall having a noble bride presented to my Faction Leader or Heir in M2:TW.

Something just occurred to me. I'm playing the Retrofit Mod of Medieval2:TW, which is supposed to combine Kingdoms' new features and units into M2's campaign. Could that possibly be hindering this occurence?

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Scarcity of Princesses in the Late Game

Perhaps they followed the rockerfeller plan - one child policy....

[Sher Khan]

I can assure you that I've had normal ladies offered for marriage to both my heir and leader. Otherwise, I would never have been able to have children by them, since I never, maybe once every 10 campaigns, seek foreign princesses to marry.


Something's wrong with either your game, or your playing style, since I've been playing like this since M2TW 1.0, and now 1.2/1.3. I've also played many Retrofit campaigns with no noticeable difference.

Edit: Started a new England Long Campaign. The prince begins the game unmarried. 14 turns later:

[Soryn Arkayn]

I can assure you that I've had normal ladies offered for marriage to both my heir and leader. Otherwise, I would never have been able to have children by them, since I never, maybe once every 10 campaigns, seek foreign princesses to marry.


Something's wrong with either your game, or your playing style, since I've been playing like this since M2TW 1.0, and now 1.2/1.3. I've also played many Retrofit campaigns with no noticeable difference.

Edit: Started a new England Long Campaign. The prince begins the game unmarried. 14 turns later:

This is really weird, because I'm certain that in my past few campaigns neither my Faction Leader nor Heir has received one of these pop-up offers to marry a noble bride. And I know from my family tree that several of my Faction Leaders have died without getting married, which resulted in other family members becoming the leader.

If there isn't an issue with the Retrofit Mod, I can't imagine what could hindering this from happening because I've installed M2:TW, Kingdoms, and Retrofit properly, and I don't tinker around with the game files at all. As for my play style somehow being a factor, I can't imagine what could hinder random brides being presented when my Faction Leader or Heir are unmarried.

To be certain, after I complete my current campaign I'll try uninstalling and reinstalling the game, and perhaps play without the Retrofit Mod to see if that fixes it. Then I'll try the mod again and see if that's the problem.

It's just frustrating to think that this only effects me for some reason. Why?

Okay, I did the same thing as Sher Khan did and started a new campaign. I did absolutely nothing except hit End Turn until around Turn 10, yes indeed, a noble bride was presented to my Prince.

So apparently it is possible.

The problem remains, why hasn't it occurred in my current campaign? To be honest, I can't remember back to the very beginning (it was at least 2 weeks ago) but I don't recall ever having a noble bride presented to my unmarried King or Prince. However I remember putting a lot of effort into arranging marriages with foreign princesses (namely France, Denmark, Sicily, and Russia), but I know from my faction's family tree that three faction leaders died unmarried.

Currently I'm at Turn 204, and 47 year-old King is married to a 23 year-old Russian Princess, and since I snatched her up as soon as she appeared (she might've been 19 at the time), my Faction Leader remained unmarried for ~25 years. So why wasn't a noble bride presented to my Faction Leader during that time? I remember that there weren't any charming foreign Princesses available during that time, so I certainly wouldn't have turned down any noble brides that were presented.

Currently, my 29 year-old Faction Heir (obviously not my King's son) remains unmarried and I know for a fact that no noble brides have been presented at all.

So what could be the reason why more noble brides aren't randomly presented to my Faction Leaders and Heirs? I find this really strange and frustrating.

[Sher Khan]

Is everyone else getting married (non royals)?

[Soryn Arkayn]

Is everyone else getting married (non royals)?

Yes and no. Yes, I do receive the occassional noble bride presented to a family member, but not to my unmarried Faction Leaders or Heirs. But even the noble brides being presented is somewhat rare. After reviewing my family tree, more than half of my family members have died unmarried, which means that I'm not receiving noble brides nearly as often as I should be. I mean, shouldn't every family member receive an offer of marriage at least once in their lifetime? I suppose if they have an undesireable trait -- like "Ugly" or one of the many implied homosexuality traits -- that might prevent them from finding a bride to marry, but the majority of my family members don't have either positive or negative traits in this regard, so I don't understand why they aren't offered a bride to marry.

It's just annoying that these problems occur. It's just further proof to me that CA doesn't adequately refine their games.

[Edward the Bear]

The chances for a bride (non-royal) being presented seems to be totally random. In one game (using Retrofit Mod), I have 9 single generals (including heir) but it was the adopted son (formerly captain promoted) that got offered a bride. Soon after, when King died, after heir became king, he gave heirship to adopted grand-nephew rather than to brothers.

[townie33]

i totally agree. Out of my last 20 campaigns i have had maybe 4 offers for any family members or generals. And those that do get offers I could care less. I'm constantly seeking out new princesses for my fraction heirs and the like and most of the time they have one or two hearts which isn't even worth it.

[Soryn Arkayn]

i totally agree. Out of my last 20 campaigns i have had maybe 4 offers for any family members or generals. And those that do get offers I could care less. I'm constantly seeking out new princesses for my fraction heirs and the like and most of the time they have one or two hearts which isn't even worth it.

That's an excellent point. The few Princesses there are in the mid-to-late game usually lack Charm, especially compared to the early game Princesses. Whenever you start a new campaign, every faction seems to have a charming Princess, which is why this is the best opportunity to score a good trophy Queen-in-waiting (since your starting Faction Leader is alread married) and secure an alliance early in the game. Once all of starting Princesses are gone, there quality of Princesses declines dramatically. The problem is that the AI doesn't utilize its Princesses effectively in order to boost their Charm traits. Whenever one of my faction's Princesses appears I send her out to offer my allies and neighbours generous gifts and deals, which boosts her Charm rating. I usually let my Princess do this for about 10 turns, then I marry her off before she gets too old (30+).

As I said, the problem is that the AI apparently doesn't know how to "train" their Princesses to boost their Charm. Usually the AI' Princesses have a Charm rating of 2 or less, and all too often they have a Secret Love in their retinue. Unfortunately a Princess with a Charm rating of 3 or less almost always turns out to be a wretch, which makes Princesses with 4-6 Charm a rare and valuable commodity, and Princesses with 7+ Charm a veritable Unicorn. I recall a few campaigns ago I encountered a 21 year-old Danish Princess with 7 Charm and not a single negative trait or retinue character. I was midway through the campaign so I had money to burn, so I offered them 100,000 gold. They responded with a request for less gold, but wanted several provinces that the Holy Roman Empire had taken from them earlier (the Danes were already my allies so I helped them by conquering HRE). I decided to relinquish Hamburg and Stettin, but kept Madgeburg because it was a valuable Fortress and bastion against the neutral Polish. I upped my offer to 150K gold, offered the two settlements, and asked and offered military access. The Danish agreed and my Faction Heir was married to an awesome bride. He earned "Wife is Lovely," "Wife is Very Fertile," and "Wife is Smart" traits immediately; I believe those traits improved even more over time (I recall seeing the "Wife is Ripe" trait for the first time ever after the Prince's third child was born).

So basically what I'm saying is that charming Princesses are worth their weight in gold -- even more, considering I relinquished entire provinces to obtain that Princess.

I'm curious, does anyone know how to manipulate the game code to improve a Princess' Charm? Is this even possible?

Also, is it possible to "create" Princesses by manipulating the game code? The Princess situation is so bleak in my campaign that I'd resort to "cheating" to find my Faction Heir an enchanting bride.