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  1. #1
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Incorrect descriptions for Athenian Hoplites

    It says
    In 390 B.C., the Athenian general Iphicrates "reformed" the infantry of Athens to some extent, introducing lighter armor and shields in addition to a 12-foot long thrusting spear, known as the xyston. After this point, traditional Hoplites and their equipment, such as the Corinthian helm and the shorter 9-foot long spear began to slowly fade away. Even the intricate bronze breastplates of the Classical period began to be replaced by lighter "linthorax" cuirasses made popular by Alexander the Great.
    Look at the bolden parts - athenians hoplites have stats/look exactly oppsite to the text: heavy bronze armour and medium speed (NOT fast).

    Please fix that in RTR 7!
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    Last edited by AqD; September 20, 2011 at 05:53 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Incorrect descriptions for Athenian Hoplites

    Since the citizen armies were expected to get their own gear, each soldier would go to his workshop of choice to get it or, better still, would continue to use stuff he inherited from his father (as opposed to royal armies, where there is evidence for standardisation of equipment). The variety in equipment within the unit obviously cannot be rendered by the RTW engine. If you notice, the phrase is "Even the intricate bronze breastplates of the Classical period began to be replaced". I perfectly agree if your comment is that the linothorax (an Oriental invention) was popular well before the arrival of Alexander, but in this case, we can only talk about "trends" or "fashions", not strictly enforced rules. Very beautiful funerary relieves from Hellenistic Athens depict the departed wearing bronze muscular cuirass.

    (I cannot swear this reflects contemporary practice and is not an anticipation of the antiquarian craze that hit the Greek world in about the 1st century AD, but, you know, based on this sort of evidence, you could make a case for bronze plates being used well into the Hellenistic Age)




  3. #3
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Re: Incorrect descriptions for Athenian Hoplites

    Yeah, but since most hoplites in RTR already wear linothorax armours rather than bronze ones, why athenians are completely different?

    The only other hoplites that still wear bronze armour are greek's elite hoplite and illyrian heavy hoplite - even hypasists or carthaginian sacred band infantry wear linothorax.

    So it seems athenians hoplite is some kind of "old" army or in traditional style, but then the description is wrong, also it has an unusually high cost-per-man: 40man-450upkeep vs corinthian sacred band's 60man-300upkeep, for only extra 3 point of armour and nothing else.
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    Last edited by AqD; September 20, 2011 at 05:53 AM.

  4. #4
    Quinn Inuit's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Incorrect descriptions for Athenian Hoplites

    Personally, I think that description may be mischaracterizing the nature of the Iphikratean reforms anyway: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=138188
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