Using a Roman Army

[snuggans]

after a couple of years playing as Romans throughout vanilla and various mods, i only recently started wondering how other players deploy and use their roman armies in battle, more specifically which formation and methodology provide the best kills:deaths ratio. it goes without saying that there is no definite best formation, only circumstantial formations against the appropriate enemy force.

what i'd like to know is what is the typical deployment for your roman army? (republican or imperial, whichever you'd like, try to keep mercenaries to a minimum)

is there any strategical benefit to using the historical manipular system IN THE GAME? does the declaration of the single line deployment having no significant strategic advantage still remain true in-game?

here are some ideas:

[btw this diagram is from a roman infantry tactic wikipedia page]
[sorry if there is thread just like this somewhere, i tried using the search function]

[Gotthard]

My current Roman armies are composed of:

4 Equitites
4 Velites
8 Principes
4 Triarii

The Principes form a single solid frontal line, and the velites are behind them. 2 units of triarii are the 'wings' of this line, and further outside are the cavalry. Sometimes the Equitites are concentrated on one side or the other, depending on the terrain, and sometimes the principes are two levels deep, or the triarii in front if I expect to be hit with a lot of cavalry, but this is the basic concept. When I play this usually results in devastating casualties (on VH) for the computer, kill ratio between 10 and 20 to 1 on average. When the computer hits my front lines, the spearman hold the flanks while the equities maneuver behind, either killing archers, lowering morale, or hitting the backs of the units, causing wide scale rout.

I have no plans on getting 'Legions', unless I can stick with VE legions. If I can use VE legions, I will substitute the principes for VE legions. Equitites are the best cavalry for the dinarii by far, 47 medium cavalry aren't as nice as 60 Equitites.

[edit]

Actually in looking at those diagrams, I frequently use the 'extended line', the 'protected flank', and sometimes the 'Weak Center'. Strong right flank is not as good because it takes too long to roll up a flank, and it's hard to keep your units from clipping. The 'Channels' can't even work with the current AI from what I can tell, and I rarely full out charge, so I don't use that with romans either. (Very useful with Germans though, especially with berserkers right behind some fodder infantry to take long range fire...)

[Tarif]

It depends on the enemy army.

Against cavalry, I allow gaps in the lines in an attempt to drive their cavalry into the center and then surrounded.

Against barbarian hordes, I've been using the wedge formation a lot. It effectively cuts them in two and then the cavalry can harass them from behind.

[Ojf]

my prefered army is about 4 triarii, 12 principes, around 3 velite and my general, and what i do is i make a thick battle line with just principes and have 2 units of triarii on the flank facing out, and then once the enemy charges my main batle line i send my triarii round the flank and sometimes i use my velite to hail down javelins into where i think they will kill the most men, thats my standered formation, heres a vid i made, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pNiEvia2i0

tell me what you think?

[century x]

It all depends on the enemy that is in front of me. I usually keep my right flank strong and my left weak so they can attack my left. I then surround them from the right. It's always changing cause every battle is different so this is a basic set up I use.

[Nordmann]

Nice post, useful diagrams, what's not to like?

[Arlin]

I usually use the Cannae tactic or the single/extended line. But I always have 3-4 units in reserve behind the line to reinforce weak spots. This is, of course, while my cavalry encircle the left and/or right flank, depending upon the level of enemy cavalry resistance, then smash their line from behind or chase away skirmishers and archers while my legionaires destroy the enemy infanty.

[Tarif]

I just faced a Gallic force with 1700 troops to my 1400, and I used the wedge tactic. It worked pretty well. Their troops quickly were spilt in two. It would have worked perfectly but the Gallic army had more cavalry than I anticipated...once that was gone though, it was smooth sailing.

[Ephialtes The Dog]

Protected flanks is what I usually use but if I cant I use the Cannae tactic.

[Paidonomos]

I modify the traditional Roman checkerboard formation a little. Rather than placing the skirmishers in front of the main infantry I place them in the the gap between the front line and the second line in the checkerboard. They lose too much firing time when they are retreating behind the heavy infantry. Any light infantry is placed at the wings with cavalry and I will move one legion cohort just behind the light infantry on those wings. Cavalry won't try to flank that way. The heavy infantry can stop cavalry or add pressure to the side of the enemy line while the light infantry move around behind the enemy line and hit them from the back. My cavalry then moves out to prevent a cavalry counter attack or to take down archers.

This has always worked well for me. The center holds well and the light auxilia are there to back up the legion cohorts in the center if needed. Archers remain behind those lines and blast away.

[pcaravel]

Romans used to replace battle lines so that there always were fresh troops fighting in the front. When the first line got tired, they were substituted by the second line. They rested for a while in reserve and then they were ordered to move in the frond again to replace their, now tired, comrades.

I have repeatedly tried this, but the result was always disappointing! During the line replacement my troops get confused and ofter root.

Has anyone used this tactic successfully?

[Ojf]

Romans used to replace battle lines so that there always were fresh troops fighting in the front. When the first line got tired, they were substituted by the second line. They rested for a while in reserve and then they were ordered to move in the frond again to replace their, now tired, comrades.

I have repeatedly tried this, but the result was always disappointing! During the line replacement my troops get confused and ofter root.

Has anyone used this tactic successfully?

lol ive tried but my very tired men always rout when i tell them to turn back, even when there is another unit engaging the people they were fighting

[theexbrit]

Romans used to replace battle lines so that there always were fresh troops fighting in the front. When the first line got tired, they were substituted by the second line. They rested for a while in reserve and then they were ordered to move in the frond again to replace their, now tired, comrades.

I have repeatedly tried this, but the result was always disappointing! During the line replacement my troops get confused and ofter root.

Has anyone used this tactic successfully?

The key to swapping troops in battle I found, is to get the fresh troops to attack & start fighting BEFORE you pull the tired troops back. Also, don't let them get too tired as then they WILL rout. You also must have a great general in command for the "moral" factor. If you do it with anything less than a 4 star general, they will probably rout.

I try to keep to genuine Roman tactics, formations, etc, as much as possible, as I love the historical aspect more than anything (that's why I always play as Romans). I also try to follow the history of Rome's expansion in regards to what factions, geographical areas conquered in correct order, etc. Sure sometimes I get slaughtered, but then so did the Romans I'm really not in it for the "winning the game" aspect, but for the pleasure of as much historical accuracy as possible.

[Mulattothrasher]

From Dvk's house rules:
6. You should have no more than 9 cohorts and 1 1st cohort in a Legion. That is the historical composition of a Legion, along with other units. A Legion must also be commanded by a General, and is considered 'out of action' if the General is killed, until commanded by another.

This is the best rule IMHO. An army with legionaries or 3/4 of its number as legionaries is not fun as it always wins. Keeping it historically based is always how I play, no matter what. having light troops around ensure you have to manage them and protect them with your mighty legions as well. Victories are much more gratifying, especially when outnumbered, and losses hurt you much more, which makes you want to continue playing and fighting harder.

Like what theexbrit stated in the post above:

I'm really not in it for the "winning the game" aspect, but for the pleasure of as much historical accuracy as possible.

[theexbrit]

Agreed, mulattothrasher. I use very few cavalry (1 or 2 units), very few archers, 2-3 units of velites as skirmishers, a line of hastati maniples, then principes, then triarii & 1 1st cohort in reserve. I also never have a field army without a general & I try to keep the same army together for the experience factor ie; if a maniple gets depleted in combat I retrain it & send it back to the same army. Makes for very interesting battles, even if I get my arse kicked I like to be outnumbered by around 2 to 1 as then it all comes down to tactics, the general's experience, the armies moral & experience level. Anyone can sit & pepper a phalanx with arrows until they're all dead, but to get stuck in with the gladius & beat the phalanx by maneuvering your army is bliss You need to be humbled by a defeat now & again I lost a general & his entire army to a rabble of free gauls yesterday because he (me) was foolish

"Varus, give me back my Legions"

[Marcus_Vipsanius]

I'm now at war macedon and had a little bit troubles in the beginning how to fight all those phalanxes.
I now use a huge single line and than flank 'm. It works very well against 1 army, when there are reinforcements I have more troubles.

[gladius99]

Those are some great ideas! Gonna try them out right now in my roman campaign. My basic legion consists of: 9 cohorts of legionaries, 1 1st cohort, 4 trairii, 3 units of cavalry 2 missle units and 1 onager unit.

[Sator Mortis]

I use this formation (and variants) a lot.



Same formation, different army. Testudo formation is great against armies with lots of missile troops, and archers can be positioned between two units (meaning they don't shoot your legionairs in the back)

[Nordmann]

Nice screenshots, thanks for sharing. How well do those formations work?

[Gotthard]

One HUGE advantage of velites (as I am discovering the more i play them) is they don't shoot your units in the back like archers and slingers. That, and the combination of high angle of fire (and maybe AP, or was that another mod...) make them devastating to light and moderate units. It's not uncommon for a unit of barbarian heavy swordsman to rout after the first volley of pilum hit their lines.

Why are the archers in the middle? They have problems with high armor/shield units anyway (compared to velites), and have better range, and more risk of shooting your units in the back. It would seem to be better if they were off to the side with the auxiliaries in the center.

To replace the units when they are tired, you can either

1. Charge with your cavalry THROUGH your own lines, and double-click retreat them. After a few seconds, charge with your backup troops, double-click retreat cavalry. The shock of the cavalry charge will push the enemy back while you retreat. Then the shock of the infantry charge will give the cavalry time to run before they start dying like flies.

2. Try the above with only infantry. Single click back while the infantry charges through, then double-click when they hit. You will take a few losses, but its better than them dying because they're too tired to swing their sword.