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Thread: The Orthodox and the "Old Believers"

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  1. #1

    Default The Orthodox and the "Old Believers"

    Reading wikipedia today, just because I was bored, I stumbled upon the question of the Orthodox Church Reforms made by Patriarch Nikon (I was searching about Mordvins in general and Nikon was from this ethnical group). The changes introduced by him include some new practices based on suposedly unchanged Greek Orthodox teachings, while the old and supposedly distorted Russian practices were abandoned after a council and forcefully removed from the Church, except by a small group of dissidents called the "Old Believers", many of them who immigrated from Russia to flee from religious persecution. But then, the article also tells:

    Nikon was much bolder and also much more liberal. He consulted the most learned of the Greek prelates abroad; invited them to a consultation at Moscow; and finally the scholars of Constantinople and Kiev convinced the eyes of Nikon that the Muscovite service-books were heterodox, and that the icons actually in use had very widely departed from the ancient Constantinopolitan models, being for the most part imbued with the Polish baroque influences. Later research was to vindicate the Muscovite service-books as belonging to a different recension from that which was used by the Greeks at the time of Nikon, and the unrevised Muscovite books were actually older and more venerable than the Greek books, which had undergone several revisions over the centuries and ironically, were newer and contained innovations.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch_Nikon

    The great schism, known as raskol, still divides the Orthodox today. But I would like to see the comments of Orthodox Christians in these forums questioning the above affirmation, and if indeed the Russian practices remained unchanged while the Greek ones didn't.
    "Romans not only easily conquered those who fought by cutting, but mocked them too. For the cut, even delivered with force, frequently does not kill, when the vital parts are protected by equipment and bone. On the contrary, a point brought to bear is fatal at two inches; for it is necessary that whatever vital parts it penetrates, it is immersed. Next, when a cut is delivered, the right arm and flank are exposed. However, the point is delivered with the cover of the body and wounds the enemy before he sees it."

    - Flavius Vegetius Renatus (in Epitoma Rei Militari, ca. 390)

  2. #2
    CtrlAltDe1337's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: The Orthodox and the "Old Believers"

    I was wondering about this too...I've only done a quick read on wikipedia about it and as we all know wiki isn't that reliable at times.


  3. #3
    Zenith Darksea's Avatar Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
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    Default Re: The Orthodox and the "Old Believers"

    The great schism, known as raskol, still divides the Orthodox today.
    It does, but it's hardly 'great'. The number of Old Believers is miniscule and shrinking all the time.

    From what I have heard and read on the subject, the Russians had been using an incomplete and inaccurate set of service books, whereas the Greeks had a complete and an accurate set. So Patriarch Nikon introduced the Greek set instead. I haven't seen this alternative view presented by Wiki before, and I have never seen any evidence to suggest it. Does the article give a citation?

    What should be underlined is that this issue doesn't actually have anything to do with doctrine or belief. The Old Believers all share Orthodox beliefs about Christ, the Trinity, the resurrection, the nature of the Church and salvation and so on. The difference lies in things like what hymns are sung and when feast days occur.

    It's nice to see a controversial thread about the Orthodox Church for once though.

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