How do you start with greek cities??

[AqD]

The faction seems very hard to me even on M/M. Its cities are seperated and all face immediate threats from romans or macedonians. Yet the economics is already drained out by the initial armies. In my modded RTR I gave up the whole greece and raided romans (faction destroyed in 5 years), but that's of course impossible with the original RTR. So what would you guys do??
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[binTravkin]

Diplomacy and navy should help you, also I don't see any problem defeating Roman AI with Pyrrhus - I've had hard time killing a Greek AI Pyrrhus with almost the whole Roman initial army, but Roman AI is so much worse at handling armies than me..
So the plan would be to hold everywhere else trying to establish good relations and perhaps alliances and meanwhile kill Rome.

[sumaznguy]

I was playing on VH/VH using greek cities. I used the elephant on the first turn to attack a rebel city. Then disbanded the elephant since it has 2k upkeep. I disbanded all the other cavalary units which freed up thousands in upkeep. Macedon is your major concern. AI Rome seems to be very passive most of the time. By disbanding most if not all of your cavalry units you will have lots of money. I used initial money to build ports, then the rest on roads and military buildings since most of the cities only have access to levy hoplites or nothing. Macedon was the only faction that constantly attacked me. Carthage, Illyria, Rome, and Selucid Empire would only occassionally blockade ports and rarely attack.

[binTravkin]

Well I used the elephants to kill off rome and italian rebels, it's pretty handy when you needn't siege wooden settlements.

Also, cavalry gets decimated quickly if you actually use it and you don't have facilities to replenish it early. I found the elite hoplites a bit too expensive though for an infantry unit.

[Tony83]

While Rome is my favourite faction to play in RTR, the Hellenic states come a close second as I really do like the way that you need to adopt a different style of tactics to suit their phalanx armies. I also like that there are quite a few Hellenic states to choose from, each with their own pros and cons, providing a variety of campaigns.

At the start of the campaign Greece, to put it mildly, is geographically challenged! It is strung out and has strong neighbours (Rome; Macedon, Carthage, Egypt) and you know it's only a matter of time before they pounce and try and carve you up. I think the secret for a successful Greek campaign is to have a clear strategy from the outset, act decisively, and act quickly. I tend to split the map into four theatres; Southern Italy and Sicily; Greece; Crete; and Byzantion.

Southern Italy & Sicily

Greece starts with Tarantum, Croton and Syracuse but sandwiched between expansionist Rome and Carthage, there is much danger here. Luckilly, it is here that you have your strongest starting forces. There are rebel settlements between you and both Rome and Carthage so you have a little time to organise yourself for combat. I usually decide to take on Carthage first as they can only move east from Lilybaeum, while with Rome there is as much chance of them going north first, as south.

Having decided on Carthage and Sicily as my first target, I send a diplomat to the Romans to get whatever sort of a deal I can. They are usually only to willing to swap trade rights and even an alliance on rare occasions. However, you must realise that all you are doing is buying a little time for, as soon as Rome has taken the two rebel settlements to the north of Tarentum, they will be knocking on your door. So speed is of the essence.

I move the fleet off the west coast of Greece to Croton and move Pyrrhus and as many of his men as possible to meet them, leaving behind minimum garrisons. I normally disband the elephants as they don't suit my style of fighting and are expensive to maintain. Moving Pyrrhus' army to Sicily, they can combine with the garrison of Syracuse to make a very strong stack. Carthage will usually now have Agrigento under siege so I make an attack on Messana, which can be taken within two ar three moves. Even on autoresolve, with Pyrrhus leading the army, you shouldn't lose too many men in the assault.

Filling the gaps with reinforcements from Syracuse, Pyrrhus can then attack Agrigento, just after Carthage has taken it and before they have time to replenish their losses. With Agrigento under your belt the last city on Sicily, Lilybaeum should fall quite quickly to you as Carthage will have lost most of its men in Sicily taking, and then defending Agrigento. If you time it right, you will have a little time to consolidate before Rome starts knocking on your door. Then it's time to move the campaign to Italy and take them on.

Greece

Your main competition here is Macedon and although you start out at peace with them, it won't be long before they start trying to encroach on your territory. Macedon has two territories right within southern Greece, Corinth and Elis, which you must take to prevent having to fight Macedon on two fronts. Your initial forces aren't anywhere as strong as the army in Sicily but you should be able to pool a decent enough force from the garrisons of Sparta, Athens and Thermon. Lay siege to Corinth as soon as Macedon moves part of the garrison outside the city walls. They will attack on the next turn but you should be able to beat them, especially if you have the Spartans with you! After that move quickly to take Elis as Macedon will want revenge and will either attack you north of Athens or move on your west coast holdings.

Crete

A minor sphere but it's worth holding on to, so building the Level II barracks is a good idea as it allows you to recruit hoplitai, which will be handy when the Egyptians make their inevitable move on Kydonia.

Byzantion

In my early Greek campaigns I used to disband the troops, destroy all the buildings and let it rebel, as Macedon kept bribing it away from me - I never had the ships or general to spare to get reinforcements there to prevent it. However, by pure chance, I discovered that if I had a diplomat present in the town it somehow prevented Macedon's attempts at bribery! Now, the first thing I do is recruit a diplomat there and batten down the hatches, and hope that my campaign against Macedon will eventually link me up with them, before Thrace starts sniffing at them.


So that is a typical example of my strategy for starting a Greek campaign in RTR. It leaves me in control of the Greek mainland, once Macedon has been dealt with, and in a strong positon to challenge Rome in Southern Italy. Now it's up to you where you go from there.

[Jamey]

I take a rather different route with Greece. I've played through Greek campaigns in a couple of versions or RTR.

In the Beginning
You must disband all of your cavalry to have a viable economy. This isn't a big loss, because your cavalry, frankly, sucks. I choose to keep the elephants because (1) you can bust down wooden walls and (2) elephants are cool. I understand the logic for disbanding them - I see them as very expensive toys.

Italy
I keep the Elephants and blitz up the Italian peninsula, knocking Rome out ASAP. I leave the two northern barbarian settlements as a buffer between me and the Gauls to buy time for building up. I then move my primary force south and take Paestum, Rhegium, and Messana. I then make the decision on whether to attack Carthage and drive them from Sicily or not. Usually, this depends on whether Pyrrhus and his veterans are needed against Macedon or not.

Be aware that with BI, this strategy carries some risk. Last time I did it, Illyria and Carthage decided to perform naval attacks on my rear lines in Italy. Make sure to keep a credible force available to threaten and/or fight any incursions. Also, be aware that when you go to war with Carthage, they will be major pests with their fleets. Expect to have 4+ harbors blockaded until you can mop up all of them. I wind up keeping several decent sized fleets off the Carthaginian coast until I invade North Africa.

Greece
The first thing I do is pull enough force to Crete to take Hieraptyna. If possible, I use the remnants of this force to take Rhodes. This dramatically improves your economy by boosting sea trade, your mainstay. Generally, the Ptolemies will sue for peace once you no longer share a land border. Take advantage of the boost in sea trade this will gain you.

At the same time, I prepare for a Macedonian attack, most likely on Athens or Thermon. I normally fortify Antigonea and Apollonia in the north to dissuade Illyria from getting adventurous and prepare to counter attack any siege forces in the south. If you get lucky, the Macedonians will be distracted by something shiny in Thrace and will allow you to pick the time for your war. Most likely, you'll have to fight off an invasion.

Once you take Corinth, Elis, and Chalkida, the Macedonian war should be well in hand. I've most often had enough forces in Athens and Sparta to besiege Elis and Corinth simultaneously, allowing you to nearly empty both cities.

General Advice
In general, the best way to deal with playing the Greeks is the same as the best way to deal with multifaceted problems. If you try to deal with all of your problems at once, they seem insurmountable. Each problem must be solved separately, so pick a couple of them and solve them. Put the others off through negotiations, a credible show of force, or other means. I found that after the early game, Greek empires become pretty irresistible - the combined economy of Italy and Greece is massive.

[Maddicus]

Excellent info.

I found that the disbanding of cav units was a bit odd.

I let Syracuse go to Carthage because it is a 2k drag on your economy. Jamey, your blitz on Rome is the same tactic I used. Knocking Rome out in Italy is key to survival there, at least until 263, which is the time I am at now.

Macedon is little or no challenge. They seem to have poor luck. My campaign is at the stage that I am in control of mainland Greece, Crete, all of Roman Italy, minus rebel cities, and I've destroyed Macedon. My next moves are to move through Illyria and invade Gaulia Cisalpina. That will allow me to take all of Italy and prepare to invade Sicily. I also want to fortify against Thrace and the Selucids.

[Tony83]

Hehe - taking out Rome early on is certainly an option, and it's one I have tried on more than one occasion. The problem I find is that, without Rome, the game loses its raison d'etre for me.

Once Rome is knocked out I find I lose interest in the campaign, regardless of which faction I'm playing. Daft I know, but there it is.

[Jamey]

I found that the disbanding of cav units was a bit odd.

Early in most campaigns, you're better off disbanding expensive cavalry and using your General(s) aggressively as a replacement. At 600-1000 per unit, the maintenance really adds up. Some factions have cheaper cavalry, which I'll often keep.

I let Syracuse go to Carthage because it is a 2k drag on your economy. Jamey, your blitz on Rome is the same tactic I used. Knocking Rome out in Italy is key to survival there, at least until 263, which is the time I am at now.

This is a common misconception. The money reported includes dividing the maintenance of units up between cities based on their population. Syracuse, as your largest city (and one which is a trade nexus), is actually your biggest money maker. Check out your income before and after trading away Syracuse. It will decrease, by a lot.

[Brusilov]

This is a common misconception. The money reported includes dividing the maintenance of units up between cities based on their population. Syracuse, as your largest city (and one which is a trade nexus), is actually your biggest money maker. Check out your income before and after trading away Syracuse. It will decrease, by a lot.

I agree with this post.

If you look at the settlement details the upkeep of your army and the maintenance of the family members/generals and agents is spread amongst your settlements on a proportion basis. The larger settlements pay more, the smaller a lot less. It can seem that when you conquer a settlement and exterminate that the settlement has very good income - this is incorrect.

[Maddicus]

Thanks for the info about the cities and incomes. That big -2k really looks ugly. However, I find that it is better to let it go so that I can bring Italy under control. This army relieved a Roman seige of Rome and then finished the last Roman threats. As MacArthur said, "I shall return," and Arnold, "I'll be back." I shall return to Syracuse and those Carthagenians who thought...undefended and shiny = NICE will pay for their insolence. Oh and then I will take the whole island from them! MUUUHAHAHAHA!

[AqD]

So you never play the roman campaign?
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[Tony83]

So you never play the roman campaign?

Absolutley I do! I've currently got Roman campaigns running in RTR6 Gold, RTR-PE 1.8 and RTR-PE Extended Realism; BI ERE campaigns in Goths 2.4.1 and IBFD; Med II ERE campaigns in Lands to Conquer, Broken Crescent and Stainless Steel 5.1; and am waiting for the latest installments of PDER, Roma Surrectum and RTR-PE AEE.

I'm also steeling myself to start an Imperium Jualianorum campaign, but the thought of jumping in and coping with 85 settlements straight from the beginning is a bit daunting at the moment.

Do I play any other games? I hear you ask! I've got a jig-saw programme, does that count?

[Quinn Inuit]

When I play Greece, I try to play it schizophrenically, since I assume all the city states would want their share of resources. Also, I try to make armies be all from one city if possible. Corinthians, Spartans, and Syracusans won't play with Athenians, and the latter tend to focus on seaborne conquests. Also, I ignore (as much as possible) anywhere that's not Greek or Hellenistic in culture...as a Greek, such barbarians aren't worth my notice.

[Skirnir]

I like to play Greece in more of an economic way. Here's how I do it.

First, abandon the Greek mainland completely. If you don't, you're looking at non-stop combat with Macedon. Destroy all buildings and move all of your armies to Crete. Use these men to take Heirapytna and Rhodes. Ptolemy will generally accept a ceasefire fairly quickly. As soon as the Macedonians have taken all of Greece, make peace with them (preferably an alliance).

Second, move your capitol to Syracuse. Butcher the Carthaginians with Pyrrhus and try to take all of Sicilia, Malta, Corsica and Sardinia, and the Balearic Islands. Then make peace with Carthago and watch the Carthago-Sicily trade lanes make you rich.

Having done all this, the only real line you will have to hold is southern Italia against the Romans. Tarentum and Croton can be very valuable cities to have, so you can either choose to place a large army here to defend against Rome, or else abandon these and hold against Rome at Rhegium-Messana landbridge while inciting the Gauls against Rome with monetary and military aid.

After all this, I like to take the Crimea and sail with two huge armies to Britain. I call this my Pythean strategy. You now have an island empire.

[Jamey]

After all this, I like to take the Crimea and sail with two huge armies to Britain. I call this my Pythean strategy. You now have an island empire.

Britain. *shudder* I conquered it with my German campaign, but it was a bloodbath. Fortunately, the chariots get massacred when they get stopped in tightly packed spearmen, not that it's healthy for the spearmen to get them stuck.

[Skirnir]

Britain. *shudder*

Oh yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Even after defeated those huge rebel armies, Greek-ifying the island is a nightmare. Not to mention the fact that the distance to your capitol makes every governor a corrupt drunk.

[Delvecchio1975]

One of my most rewarding campaigns in RTR was as the Greeks, with a special house rule: conquer only Greek cities. That means from West to East:

• Emporiae
• Massillia
• Aleria
• Caralis
• Agrigento
• Messana
• Syracuse
• Reghium
• Croton
• Tarente
• Appolonia
• Antigonea
• Thermon
• Elis
• Sparta
• Corinth
• Athens
• Chalkida
• Phillipi
• Maronia
• Kydonia
• Hierapytna
• Byzantion
• Prusa
• Abydos
• Pergamon
• Smyrna
• Halicarnassus
• Mytilene
• Rhodos
• Debeitos
• Anchialus
• Antiphilos
• Khersonesos
• Kerkentida
• Heracleia
• Sinope
• Trapezus

I was allowed only punishment expeditions (burn the cities down and leave) against overly arrogant neighbours - obviously Macedon and the Romans. I was happily surprised when I started getting Epirote phalangites from Appolonia and Antigonea, and together with the Spartans and the Athenians they give a mightily interesting unit roster. Money is never an issue for the Greeks as long as you keep enough ships in the water to keep your harbours free. I conquered my target on a lazy pace by 205 BC. Apart from that, since your empire is spread out so much, you're in constant wars with a grand assortment of armies (in the end I was at war, and actively fighting battles with: Iberians, Gauls, Carthaginians, Romans, Illyrians, Thracians, Macedonians, Pontus, the Seleucids and the Armenians - I had the Germans and the Sarmatians as allies - very helpful (not!)). And of course, the cherry on top of the pie: Sparta has no walls!

(and then, the crash bug hit in 201BC )

[Hound of Ulster]

With the men of Hellas, I disbanded my elephants, abandoned Magna Graecia to the Romans and Carthiginians, and concentrated my forces in the Pelopanesse. I lost Epirus to the Illyrians who treacheously betrayed me, but I have been slowly rolling the Macedonians out of Greece Proper. My house rule is that I never exterminate the settlements I take from Macedon and always use spies to open the gates of settlements before I attack them.

[Brusilov]

I recently started a RTR PE The Greek Cities campaign. I decided to hold in place the action in Sicily and Italy and concentrate my forces in Greece.

I shipped Phyrrus and his elephants back to the homeland and proceeded to beat up Macedon - they had attacked me on turn 2.

Basically, the veteran army beat all that came in it's way and it wasn't before long that I owned most of mainland Greece with Macedon reduced to a couple of settlements.

Along the way Illyria and Thrace attacked me but they were not much of a match. I've taken the Ilyrian capital and the next settlement up the coast and I am now at peace with them - I've even tried to help them out against their new threat - Rome. This has been done with bribery and a few settlements have been given to them.

I've taken the Thracian capital and Tylis from Thrace.

The Ptolemaics also went to war with me at some stage - they have lost Maronia, their Cretian settlement and Rhodes.

I am now at war with the Selucids but the balanced army I've been using has been OK so far. I've yet to see any armoured elephants but that will happen at some stage. I've taken most of their settlements on the Asia Minor coast and I am currently allied with Pontus, my partners in crime against the Seleucids.