Agents successrates and training skills

[the great zolo]

I've never really used agents that much till recently and was wondering how exactly the success rates are calculated and how to train there stats.

A current situation that's frustrating me is my assassin with +3 skills, is trying to kill a moorish Iman, with a 53% success rate yet, I can't kill him. Either I die or he misses the target and usually looses a skill. I've re-loaded the game 10 times before giving up and comming here. What's the deal? I've actually never had an assassin succed with less that a 60% success rate. am I unlucky or is there a cutoff that needs to be reached to have a chance to succeed?

(Typo in title fixed by NobleNick.)

[Sokar Rostau]

You can succeed, or fail, at any success percentage. I've failed to kill a noob merchant at 95% and succeeded killing a Family Member at 9%. It only takes a couple of kills to train your Assassin up to the next level so go find a Rebel army or an enemy army led by a Captain and kill a few of them and then try the Imam again. If he's a high Piety Imam though you just have to live with the odds.

Also I noticed that some things seem to be pre-determined on a given turn. The other night my game kept crashing so I had to reload five times and every single time the results of my Agent's actions were the same - including an Assassination and a Spy with 95% chance of success both failing. The last time I reloaded I changed their targets, still 95%, and they succeeded. Maybe you should wait a turn before you try again instead of just reloading.

[Pyrebound]

I have also succeeded in killing the norwegian king with 12% chance, on the first try in the teutonic campaign..

Its just about luck. I find those rebels good training targets but it is hard to get above like 7 subterfuge. Poisoner traits seem to never come :I

[malcolm mcdowell]

instead of just reloading the game and trying again, reload and move something about - i heard somewhere once something like this makes the game recalculate everything. or maybe save before your assassin is right next to the target; i think the move every time will give you different results. it has worked for me a few times

[Bacon!]

lol remember having a terrible assassin who had 0 suberfuge so i tryed to get him killed off by assassinating a 6 piety heretic he failed but lived 4 times then on the 5th attempt he killed the hertic. If anything it was bad consiering the heretic was not in my land and the hertic still had zero skill he just got back the anti suberfuge traits he had picked up by failling to kill the heretic. So there you go 5% chance success does not mean impossibility and 95% does not mean certantity. @ Pyrebound poisoner is a retinue not a trait

[Pyrebound]

@ Pyrebound poisoner is a retinue not a trait

Meant the same ;p

I wonder if theres any special trigger for it, or is it just a x% chance on successful assassination. The +2 assassination is really good

[Duke4747]

lol remember having a terrible assassin who had 0 suberfuge so i tryed to get him killed off by assassinating a 6 piety heretic he failed but lived 4 times then on the 5th attempt he killed the hertic.

good story Bacon!

[N3rull]

I believe that a save&load tactic when dealing with spies and assassins is not a crime.
If I tell my man:
- Agent 00M, there is this mofo I need down. Take as long as you want, but make sure his body eventually takes a role of a fertiliser. Got that?

... don't I have the right to expect that my assassin makes sure he acts when all odds are working for him? Everybody can be killed, it's just a matter of time. If you want someone dead *tomorrow*, okay, chances are scarce. But, come on.

[pwijnands]

I've never really used agents that much till recently and was wondering how exactly the success rates are calculated and how to train there stats.

A current situation that's frustrating me is my assassin with +3 skills, is trying to kill a moorish Iman, with a 53% success rate yet, I can't kill him. Either I die or he misses the target and usually looses a skill. I've re-loaded the game 10 times before giving up and comming here. What's the deal? I've actually never had an assassin succed with less that a 60% success rate. am I unlucky or is there a cutoff that needs to be reached to have a chance to succeed?

There's no cut-off, it's just a chance to succeed and that chance never is 100% (unless you mod it). I've once wasted 5 10-subterfuge assassins trying to kill a king with around 35-40% chance.
The chance for succes is mostly affected by the target's skill. High finance merchants, high subterfuge spies/assassins, high piety priests, high charm princesses and high command (not 100% sure on this) are harder to kill then low level ones. Heirs and kings get a trait that gives more security and are also harder to kill.

[pwijnands]

I think you get it from an alchemist lab or higher.

[Pyrebound]

Well, i always get it after assassination so.. But there might be a requirement that you have a lab somewhere, dno.

[the great zolo]

Well that's a big relief, guess I was just unlucky, I hit a no star general nearby and it gave my a +skill, the next attempt on the iman was 61% and succeeded.

I got annother question, do you guys use alot of spies and or assassins. I've got two spys, 6 assassin, and 6 priest, that stay with my main stack. Since I'm going up against non catholics, I usually approach the city, and let my spies get in, then sabotage/assassinate everything I can untill, the city has atleast 50% catholics. Then I lay siege, and move the assassins and spy off to prep the next target.

[malcolm mcdowell]

personally i dont use assassins at all as they are so unreliable. i dont use spies to open gates or anything, just park them nearby to check out troops etc. generally they scout out the land for me rather than actively sow discord etc in settlements.

[Pyrebound]

Before i used no agents but priests and very small amount of merchants, but as i play BC now the need for merchants is growing so i use them. After i played the crusaders campaign, i noticed how clean it was to wage war while having 2-3 assassins. I prefer dread trait generals to chivalrious ones, so it helps too. Your opponen will have hard time because of the ever-dying merchants and priests, and you could usually kill those random generals often, unless they were super high in traits or heir/leader.

[Sokar Rostau]

I find Spies and Assassins to be the perfect foil to that meddling Pope.

"Thou shalt not make war on the Milanese!"

Well okay... but what you don't know won't hurt you (or me). I've gotten in trouble only once and that was because I misclicked a Spy onto a City rather than the General and he got caught. Also, sowing discontent is a great way to stay in the Pope's good books - he doesn't care if you conquer Rebel settlements.

If I get a spawn of Bandits near my Spy or Assassin producing city I heard them away from the roads rather than kill them and use them to train my Agents, even if it's just a single hit on the way to a target it always helps boost the skills of those noob Agents..

[pwijnands]

I typically train the maximum amount of agents I can and attract guilds to make them better and then assign them to "groups" to bother a particular faction. Rebelling other faction's settlements is loads of fun and usually drains all their finance while they try to repair all their broken buildings. You can even do it to allies if want to without breaking the alliance.
I also keep a priest, assassin and spy for every 3,4 settlements I own to deal with heretics/witches (they can appear in regions with 99% of my own religion) and/or annoying enemy spies/princesses/diplomats/assassins.

[simplicissimus]

I normally keep a spy/assassin team in my border settlements just in a counterintelligence mode. It does not get your leader dread traits.

I hate to have their spies in without knowing, and love when they get kicked out/killed in the non playing turn.

[pwijnands]

The process of training spies/assassins can also give dread traits. Especially assassins give lots of dread.

[simplicissimus]

The process of training spies/assassins can also give dread traits.

I never noticed... but I also turn down assassins guilds offers... perhaps this offsets the effect of training?

[Sokar Rostau]

I wondered in another thread about the proximity of your Assassins to your Faction Leader influencing those Dread Traits. I've been seeing it more. The Doge just sits around in Venice while there is one Assassin in Bruges that has killed two Heretics and three French Captains and another patrolling Constantinople-Nicaea-Smyrna. The one in Constantinople has killed well over a dozen people, including Merchants, Princesses and Captains, and single-handedly stopped three Jihad armies by killing their Generals (including Egypt's Heir). The Doge has not gained a single Dread Trait so far. In contrast, my Leader in another campaign got to Malevolent Leader after a few Assassins offed about 10 Rebels near the Capital.