A third era, the dark ages.

[Inhuman One]

Since there is an early and a late campaign its seemingly possible to have more than one. Perhaps a third one starting a lot earlier could be very interesting, to reshape history. Perhaps the year 500 would be good since I believe the medieval ages are supposed to be roughly from 500 to 1500.This would allow a lot of other factions and units to shine. It would fill the gap between barbarian invasion and medieval 2. It will allow factions as the Goths, Normans, Persians, Saxons, and many others to exist, and to change their fate. Seemingly the faction limit is linked to the campaign so that wouldnt be a problem, the templars and the kingdom of jerusalem use the same slot after all. I would personly find this a very interesting time, barely any plate armor, archers being far more usefull, lots of chainmail, viking invasions, no gunpowder, the rise of knights (which will be more rare), and this period was far more about total war than the late medieval ages.

[thisismyusername]

Plus the Islamic Conquest could be simulated by a "Mongol Style" faction emergence event

[Inhuman One]

for some reason the paragraphs where removed from the above post, I didnt post it as one blob of text.

[Baldwin of Jerusalem]

This would be great but my God, what a lot of work. It would require a total conversion!

[Antagonist]

There was a discussion about this with some faction list musings a while back here if anyone missed it.

I think this is a great idea (I'll point to my post further down that thread for my views on the period) although 500-1000 is perhaps too broad, there is so much military evolution, so many factions rising and falling within that period, that you'd be faced with a lot of faction and even unit limit pressures. I'd recommend focusing either on the earlier half (5 or 600 to c900) or the later (c750 to 1000... or 1066 for you Anglocentricists ) to be a bit more focused and cohesive. You would potentially have a much broader and more interesting selection of factions to choose from (and a few factions which are offered up from the headsman in the current build, like Norway and Ireland, are more secure) but the problem is, unlike the vanilla period one would have relatively little to build off of, it would be more like a total conversion then a spruce-up/reskin of vanilla factions with new units here and there. A lot of work...

Antagonist

[Lamanz]

That would be awesome! I would personally play as a Viking faction for my historical fascination of that era of Scandinavia, but that's a time period I have very much wanted to experience in TW, but have never had an opportunity (the Rise of Islam and the Catholic Church, the zenith of Easter Roman power (500-600 approx)...so much went on there, and yet it is such an unexplored area TW-wise...

[Echad]

Yeah, but taking in mind, that the most world was Byzantine in 500, I would suggest a more recnet date, like 800 or 900 and around...

[Inhuman One]

Its nice to hear I am not the only one interested in this.

I believe the Byzantine empire was broken up further in 500, either way they would just be one of the stronger factions.

Considering units I gues all late game units would be removed, no gunpowder and fullplate.

The armorers shouldnt go further than heavy mail.

Units such as sargeants and armored sargeants could be there, perhaps under a different name but furthermore they could be there.

The Mailed Knight would be more dominant on the battlefield, they would get the place of the feudal knight and get a dismounted version, and the feudal knight would get the place of the chivalric knight which would not be on the roster.

Several armored units could be downgraded, zweihanders could be in leather first and then upgrade to light mail. Danish Heavy Axemen could get up to heavy mail at most.

The status of some units might need to be changed though, Some units where in their prime in the earlier years and became second class at the time of the vanilla campaign. Huscarls, Mailed Knights, Viking Raiders and all kinds of spear throwers for example.

Denmark and Norway would be the viking nations, they could get less cavalry units but perhaps more infantry units. And they would be pagan.

I think the scots where still called Celts at the time, this might make for a very interesting roster.

I am not sure about eastern europe and the middle east, my knowledge of the period is limited but learning more of it through SS would be great.

I do believe that Persia was still powerfull at this point, and the turks werent there yet I think. The Goths would still be around as well, perhaps seperated as OstroGoths and VisiGoths or maybe put in as one faction depending on the slots. The VisiGoths lasted untill 711 and the Ostrogoths untill 553 so they both could be included if the game would start at 500.

The French would still be the Franks, of that I am sure.

The bodyguards would definatly need to be revised, as well as the generals. I think using the ones from the tutorial would suffice.

The bodyguards could have a few variants, not all would be mounted at this time. Not every faction would need to have a unique bodyguard, but small groups of factions could share the same bodyguards. Denmark and Norway could both have dismounted huscarls as bodyguards for example.

Any ideas and thoughts are always welcome, I am no expert on this period or any period for that matter, but from what I know of it it looks like the perfect period for a lot of expansion, war and conquest.




I have to agree about the period not stretching too long, maybe 500-700 would be good? The number of turns just should be enough so that the game doesnt become too short.

[Echad]

Well, it looks like completely different mod... Maybe just use some half-final version of SS as a base (with KK's permission, of course) and create it separately, because most units and factions will be different? =\

[Lamanz]

When I said the zenith of Byzantines in 500-600, I am referring to the reign of Justinian I, and the Eastern Roman empire at 550, when it was at its largest, including holdings in Spain, North Africa, and Italy (actually, all of Italy).

[King Yngvar]

A game that starts in 911 and ends in 1096 with 2 turns per year... That would be perfect. Allthough this would have to be made as a seperate mod, I would hate seing it made without the ability to play it on hotseat.

[Echad]

911 to 1096 can be done pretty well just like another campaign in SS...

[Inhuman One]

hm well I am curious what KK would have to say about it.

Having the Byzantines big at the beginning is no problem, it should be made difficult for them to maintain it though.

The Franks, the Goths, the Vandals and other factions close to them would make their life hell.

[King Yngvar]

911 to 1096 can be done pretty well just like another campaign in SS...

Yes, probably, but there would be needed some unit fixing and least.
And I still think that making anything as just another campaign in SS would render it less usefull than making it as a seperate mod with a seperate exe, so that it could be played on hotseat. I would love seeing this get done for late era campaign as well.

[Echad]

Then you should assemble a team... You can always count on me for icons.

[bobfish]

What is special about 900s?

I think that 9th century is a much more interesting time period. Near the beginning of the century you have six major powers controlling most of Europe, North Africa, Middle East and Eastern Russia, yet by the end of the century only two of those remained with any significant kind of power left.

Umayyad Caliphate controls most of Spain except for parts of the North controlled by the Asturias.

Frankish Empire controls most of France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, Northern Italy (including Rome) and Austria.

Bulgarian Empire is the largest it will ever be, controlling from south of the Danube up to and beyond the Carpathian Mountains.

Khazar Empire has Kiev and everything west of it to Volga and north from the coast to south at the Black Sea.

Byzantine Empire is all of Anatolia, Macedonia, parts of Southern Italy, Scilicy and Sardinia.

Abbasid Caliphate controls all of North Afria, Middle East and Persia, all the way to India.

During the 9th Century you had three large scale assault on Europe, from the North came the Vikings, from the South came the Saracens and from the East came the Magyars. The result was devastating for all but the Byzantine Empire.

Though it might just be my Britishness coming through in wanting to play an underdog that cames out of nowhere to destroy a huge kingdom. The thought of first having to unit my people and then invading a foreign empire is very appealing to me. We also see the rise of Kievan Russia.

[Echad]

Well, your ideas seem much interesting, but these are out of scope of SS...

As I said, if you guys will gather the team for other stuff, then I'd like to participate in making of icons... And maybe some text editing/texturing, but for this I cannot guarantee.

AND, if you ever to make mod, based on SS, you should wait util' 6.0 will be released, at least as a base map.

For now, we are better just to stick for discussions - I would like to play from any period, when there was no one definite power, controlling all others, up to the start of the High Middle Ages.

[Slash5]

This is probably the most interesting map you'll come across. The site contains maps from the years 1 to 2000 if you want to look around. But the rest are either rather empty or contain huge blobs that cover 1/3rd of the map.

[Inhuman One]

theres a very interesting map there of the year 500.

The Byzantine empire wasnt as big as I expected, they controll Greece, Turkey and egypt seemingly.

I am not sure about all names but it seems that the Ostrogoths controlled Italy at this point and the OstroGoths controlled most of Spain and a part of France.

The Vandals controll Carthago and the region around it, and I just notice that the names of all major powers are in english under the map.

I think its quite a balanced time and would allow the Byzantine empire to fight hard to gain Rome back. If they would go to war with the VisiGoths it might spread their forces thin over their regions while the VisiGoths would have a great position to defend.

I think this would be a great time to begin, it would be the beginning of the medieval age, instead of jumping right in the middle of it.

[bobfish]

It's an interesting period definitely, from the fall of Rome to the rise of the Papal States, there is a lot nations that rise up and are destroyed, more so than the actual setting of M2TW.