Faction list for S.S. 6.0

[hellas1]

Hi all,

Does anyone know where and/or IF a faction list has been compiled for SS 6.0? :hmmm:

Thanks, hellas1

P.S. Sorry, I finally recovered from a Destructive Recovery & am back online again. If this is posted elsewhere please DO TELL!

[McCloy]

This isn't official info from the SS crew, but when I made a quick list based on what I've read, it might go like this:

1. Aragon
2. Venice
3. Sicily
4. Seljuks
5. England
6. Byzantines
7. Leon-Castille
8. Lithuania
9. Templars
10. Genoa (replacing Milan)
11. Denmark
12. France
13. Portugal
14. Moors
15. Hungary
16. Ireland
17. The Cumans (new)
18. Norway
19. Fatimids
20. Scotland
21. HRE
22. Poland
23. Novgorod
24. Kievan Rus
25. Papal States
26. The Teutonic Order
27. Mongols
28. Khwarezm (new, replacing the Timurids)
29. Rebels

Aztecs and Americas eliminated because this is a game about Medieval times!

There's been forum suggestions, for future SS versions, to fuse the Templars and Kingdom of Jerusalem into one faction. This would free up 1 faction slot.

[delra]

How many slots we have free after Aztecs are kicked out and Cumans and Khwarezm added?

[Echad]

Zero...

TIMURIDS ARE STILL THERE!

So we have NO free slots, but are to get two with merging Templars+KoJ and Khwarezm+Timurids.

Count from different side:

SS 5.1 = 1 free slot - Aztecs = 2 free slots + Cumans + Khwarezm = 0 free slots.

See?

So we should merge Templars+KoJ and Khwarezm+Timurids and add Georgia and Serbia (if we count for poll results) and everything will be fine! =)

[Schweizergarde]

Zero...

TIMURIDS ARE STILL THERE!

So we have NO free slots, but are to get two with merging Templars+KoJ and Khwarezm+Timurids.

Count from different side:

SS 5.1 = 1 free slot - Aztecs = 2 free slots + Cumans + Khwarezm = 0 free slots.

See?

So we should merge Templars+KoJ and Khwarezm+Timurids and add Georgia and Serbia (if we count for poll results) and everything will be fine! =)

What he said

[delra]

Khwarezm and Timurids??? Merge??? How?

[Echad]

Just give the unique Elephants and errr, Khwarezm Cavalry units to Khwarezm... =) Timurids have not so many other uniques.

[delra]

I suppose we reach the end of how much this game can be modded... I mean, no more factions, no more regions, we won't have better map, probably no better AI. There's little to be improved.

So, when's ETW? :-)

[McCloy]

And if Ireland is reconsidered, then there will be 3 free slots....

Y'know, I hate to pick on Ireland. It has a rich history. The warriors certainly did know how to fight and organize. I wish there were 50 faction slots so it could be solidly included, along with so many other underdogs. But out of all the factions currently in-game, I just don't see them as being expansionist or potentially powerful. Even the arguably irrelevant 'County of Portugal' and the little Papal States were expansionist. They both eventually had big ambitions.

The Irish just wanted to be left alone, and reverse the slow colonization of their lands, did they not?

[y2day]

Procrastination is like :wub:; In the end you're just screwing yourself.

There are things that we never want to let go of, people we never want to leave behind. But keep in mind that letting go isn’t the end of (Medieval II, Kingdoms, Stainless Steel), the world, it’s the beginning of a new (Empire) life.

Yes the end draws near but do not worry an EMPIRE is on the horizon

[McCloy]

I just realized. If Georgia and Serbia were added, then there will finally be a fair bloc of Orthodox factions, taking into account the Kievan Rus, Novgorod, and Byzantines. Since the Byz were in frequent contact with all of them, and were generally respected as elites in the Orthodox food chain, wouldn't it be cool if the Byzantine religious Patriarch could act like a Catholic pope -- assigning missions, rewards, and new kinds of punishments?

That would be a big chore to add and would have to be far more subtle than the hyperactive interventions of the Papacy, but still.... it'd be neato!

[delra]

It would be nice but it's impossible to do. Blame CA.

[Mars Magnus]

Yes,
I agree with Echad!

[firekiller]

put ireland out for a faction in tunis
remove timurids for serbia
merge koj and templar order for gergia/armania

[McCloy]

put ireland out for a faction in tunis
remove timurids for serbia
merge koj and templar order for gergia/armania

Mein Gott!

This man wants the Zirids in Tunis! And Serbia and Georgia! Sir, I extend an alliance to you for such good taste I don't even know that much about the Zirids, but I knew their emirate claimed independence and they had some power. Besides I'm sick of seeing either Iberian or Italian factions eventually eat up North Africa during most games. Could you guys imagine launching a maritime invasion of Italy and all of the Mediterranean islands like in the good ol Saracen pirate days?:hmmm: Oh yah!

[WRL]

just don't take out Ireland, and please add to their roster. I've assembled many empires as Ireland, but lets see better troops, quickly take Scotland, treaty with England, beat them to Scandinavia, put a diplomat on a ship, get a trade agreement with every nation you can, and then build the ports and economic infrastructure in those cites. You'll be rich, and due to distance issues, make nations vassels that are to far away. You may not dominate the ME, but with vassals you can set your self up to defend yourself in strategic places.

Oh and I know the Teutonic Order was militaristic, but how do you manage an empire with no family tree? For the game we are playing (SS grand campain+ kingdoms) I just though maybe if it was possible to include a family tree into their faction, the HRE for example. Prussia has a proud history. Don't even know if this is possible, but I tried to play as them, took a few cities, but had no one to manage them.

[Inhuman One]

The Teutonic order is not a family thing so shouldnt have a family tree. Its logical that members are chosen based on skill. This makes them more unique and realistic.

Considering factions, when all slots are full there can finally be more focus on all the factions included to tweak them into perfection.

[Baldwin of Jerusalem]

You can build generals too dont forget.

[Antagonist]

The practicalities need to be considered; unless you want it to take another year (or the relevant factions already exist in some other mod who is willing to share the resources) you can't just strip out factions instantly and replace them without some consideration.

I'd recommend starting by removing the Aztecs (as just about everyone seems to regard the New World in vanilla M2 as a gimmick), merging KoJ-Templars and Khwarezm-Timurids for 6.0. With that done one can sit back and try and get the faction list into a consistent state. The inevitable limitations of the engine (30 factions etc.) mean that there must always be a compromise somewhere between gameplay and historicity, but one must decide where to lie on that spectrum. For example, Ireland is a popular faction with a unique unit roster and tactical possibilities, but as McCloy says it didn't really expand during this period and for the latter part of it did not function as a whole entity at all. By contrast, there are some factions (Burgundy, for example) which where very influential in a macrohistorical context, but tactically offer little new beyond fielding a unique type of crossbowman, or something. It's up to each mod maker to decide on such policies, but the implications (especially how long and how much resources it would require to create the new faction) need to be weighed up.

One elegant way to solve this that was possible in the original MTW was utilizing the Eras system: you could have different sets of factions playable in Early, High, and Late, which allowed you to accomodate the fact that different factions where most active at different junctures. MTW mods like Pike & Musket used this to great effect, essentially featuring over 40 factions in a game with a 30 faction limit through different eras. Unfortuantely this is not so easily done in M2TW I understand, you have provincial campaigns and so on but you retain the same factions through all of them. I suppose it might possibly be done with bat files and the like, but it would more or less require a different mod for each era, which I guess would be untenable in terms of diskspace etc. Some things were so much easier back then.

Antagonist

[Echad]

Well, I am maybe the only guy, who thinks, that there is a good point in faction slots as well... Because of them we just don't put like 153 alike factions on the map, but consider each and every of them and got nearly endless time to improve on them, rethink and change, until' we will got a nearly perfect game.

Same to regions, units and other limited things... It will help at balance.