‘Don’t teach children patriotism’

[Shaun]

Hmm.

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Patriotism should be avoided in school lessons because British history is “morally ambiguous”, a leading educational body recommends.

History and citizenship lessons should stick to the bare facts rather than encouraging loyalty to Britain when covering subjects such as the Second World War or the British Empire, the Institute of Education researchers said. Teachers should not instill pride in what they consider great moments of British history, as more shameful episodes could be downplayed or excluded.

The slave trade, imperialism and 20th century wars should be taught as controversial issues while students are deciding how they feel about their country, the report says.

Three quarters of teachers felt obliged to tell students about the danger of patriotism. The survey suggested neither pupils nor teachers wanted patriotism endorsed by schools.

Historians said last night, however, that it was impossible to teach the subject without patriotism or a recognition that British values were rooted in the past.

The report criticises the current drive to use citizenship lessons as a way of promoting pride in being British and developing a sense of belonging. It said: “To love what is corrupt is itself corrupting, not least because it inclines us to ignore, forget, forgive or excuse the corruption. And there’s the rub for patriotism.

“Countries are morally ambiguous entities: they are what they are by virtue of their histories.”

The authors added: “It is hard to think of a national history free from the blights of warmongering, imperialism, tyranny, injustice, slavery and subjugation, or a national identity forged without recourse to exclusionary and xenophobic stereotypes.”

Alan Johnson, the former Education Secretary, announced last year that pupils aged 11 to 16 would have compulsory lessons in British history. Ethnicity, religion, race and national identity will be taught, through studying immigration, the Commonwealth, the Empire and devolution, extending the popular vote and women’s rights.

Gordon Brown said at the time: “There is a golden thread that intertwines the unshakeable British commitment to liberty with another very British idea: that of duty and social responsibility.”

But Dr Hand, the co-author of the report, said: “Gordon Brown and David Cameron have both called for a history curriculum that fosters attachment and loyalty to Britain, but the case for promoting patriotism in schools is weak.

“Are countries really appropriate objects of love? Loving things can be bad for us, for example when the things we love are morally corrupt. Since all national histories are at best morally ambiguous, it’s an open question whether citizens should love their countries.”

The institute - part of the University of London – asked nearly 300 pupils aged 13 to 14, and 47 teachers, in 20 London schools, how patriotism should be handled. About 94 per cent of teachers and 77 per cent of teenagers said that schools should give a balanced presentation of opposing views. Fewer than 10 per cent felt patriotism should be actively promoted.

However, 19 per cent of teachers and 16 per cent of teenagers thought schools should support patriotic views when expressed by pupils.The historian Tristram Hunt said of the institute’s report: “I think it’s a very immature approach to the topic. The point is not whether history was right or wrong from a 21st Century liberal-left perspective. It’s about teaching students to understand the mindset and context of our forebears.

“The real problem isn’t that our children are being indoctrinated with patriotism, but that they don’t know enough British history."

I only hope that correct historical facts are taught, and that patriotism or national-shame doesn't get in the way of this. Although this kid does look quite tacky:

[english tyrant]

I think people should be taught to be patriotic, to love their monach and believe that their country is the best in the world. But not be taught stuff that is historically inaccurate. Also not to look like that kid in at the top.

[kittenslayer]

I think people should be taught to be patriotic, to love their monach and believe that their country is the best in the world. But not be taught stuff that is historically inaccurate. Also not to look like that kid in at the top.

So you agree British school text should describe the British empire is a nation created by greedy, blood thirsty and racist bastards?

This is such a disgusting article. Britain as "morally ambiguous"? As compared to whom? If Britain is morally ambiguous, then most of the rest of the world are blightful beasts. I prefer to think of it as the rest of the world as morally ambiguous, and Britain as one of the shining beacons.

comment deleted- Davy Jones

Do not double post and do not post anything that can be taken insulting. You have been warned.

[Calvin]

So you agree British school text should describe the British empire is a nation created by greedy, blood thirsty and racist bastards?

What a lovely balanced, fair summary

[Last Roman]

believe that their country is the best in the world.

that's blind nationalism, not patriotism.

[Dr. Croccer]

Patriotism should be allowed but they shouldn't feed it en masse to kids.

[Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus]

Patriotism is a silly idea, it's love of millions of people (most of whom you have never met) and love of miles upon miles of land (Most of which you have never spent any time in) for no real reason.

[Syron]

Yeh i saw this earlier. Sad but a sign of the times.

The institute - part of the University of London – asked nearly 300 pupils aged 13 to 14, and 47 teachers, in 20 London schools

Chances are only about 1% of those surveyed were born in the UK anyway

[mongrel]

.
Total agreement with Shaun. Brits must be made fully aware of the vast achievements of our great nation.

However New Labour's version of history would be an anathema. One has to remember that our people ( and the Americans) had to wrest every freedom from the dead cold hands of the establishment, Magna Carta, freedom of religion and assembly, universal suffrage and no poll tax, all had to be fought for.

Yeh i saw this earlier. Sad but a sign of the times.Chances are only about 1% of those surveyed were born in the UK anyway

Dont be silly its 60% with 28% EU. Anyway a third of the planet fought for Britain in two World Wars, you should be grateful for that. Our imperial and commonwealth chums played an integral part in Britain's success.

[Syron]

No if you Labour is not doing things right for the people you are still a patriot, but if you hate the whole government, House of Commons and Lords and the whole 'establishment and state then you are just nuts.

Yeh, because you’re “nuts” if you’re a republican or a secularist too? Please.

The BNP supports the war in Iraq, which is the big thing that has harmed britains security. They also are in favour of deporting all foreigners and muslims so how is taht in teh countries interest?

Well you could argue if you follow the second to it’s conclusion and then there is no threat to British security is there?

Just because you don’t think it’s in the countries interest does not make it true. Different people place different levels of importance to certain aspects of what a country means.

So what is your idea of British culture?

btw i like you're British bannner.

No doubt quite different from yours.

And the British banner has nothing to do with patriotism. Been on a few boards before where for example people have commented how I’ve spelt colour or flavour wrong. It’s merely to point out where I’m from. If I was being patriotic I’d be more likely to put up an England flag.

.

Dont be silly its 60% with 28% EU

I was exaggerating to make a point. Besides, knowing a lot of polls made up simply to “prove” someone’s point, most of the schools were no doubt London’s more deprived schools where those stats are quite different.

.
Anyway a third of the planet fought for Britain in two World Wars, you should be grateful for that. Our imperial and commonwealth chums played an integral part in Britain's success.

What has that got to do with anything?

Dude, where were you born? Or your parents? I remember reading that you said you were an immigrant or born of an immigrant? Forgive me if i'm wrong.

1) My point was that with the current multicultural trend there was little likelihood that those surveyed felt much connection to the UK in the first place and so the concept of British Patriotism would be quite alien anyway. A survey done over the whole country would likely produce radically different results.

2) Being an immigrant does not mean you must necessarily agree with immigration policies. My Indian friend from Calcutta who came here when he was little is staunchly anti-mass immigration.

3) I’m not an immigrant but some of my ancestors in the fairly recent past were.

[Heinz Guderian]

2) Being an immigrant does not mean you must necessarily agree with immigration policies. My Indian friend from Calcutta who came here when he was little is staunchly anti-mass immigration.

your indian friend from calcutta is weird. If we enacted his own preferences, he'd still be picking rice. He's that guy from Weyland Industries in Aliens who shut the door on Ripley and Jason Biehn.

3) I’m not an immigrant but some of my ancestors were.

What are we talking norman invasions or Afghan refugee?

[Каие]

Yeh, because you’re “nuts” if you’re a republican or a secularist too? Please.

If you're a british Republican, Communist you are nuts. However secularism isn't against the entire establishment.

LOL, well you could argue if you follow the second to it’s conclusion and then there is no threat to British security is there?

Right, brilliant comment, lets deport every foreigner and non-christian, they will all go nicely and populate the moon where there is space for millions of rejects good plan.

Just because you don’t think it’s in the countries interest does not make it true.

So deporting all non-white 'british' people is in the countries interest?

No doubt quite different from yours.

And the British banner has nothing to do with patriotism. Been on a few boards before where for example people have commented how I’ve spelt colour or flavour wrong. It’s merely to point out where I’m from. If I was being patriotic I’d be more likely to put up and England flag.

But your statement is contradictory, you don't showyour nationality by spelling you show it by the banner in your sig.

Since you're not condemning the BNP or even commenting on it...i find it suspicious.

[Heinz Guderian]

Chances are only about 1% of those surveyed were born in the UK anyway

Dude, where were you born? Or your parents? I remember reading that you said you were an immigrant or born of an immigrant? Forgive me if i'm wrong.

[Cúchulainn]

I don't like patriotism, cause I can quickly lead to blind patriotism, which can in turn lead to Jingoism.

[Shaun]

True. I'd rather love the people in the country, than the country itself. Especially the monarchy.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Hmm.

Click to view content: 

Patriotism should be avoided in school lessons because British history is “morally ambiguous”, a leading educational body recommends.

History and citizenship lessons should stick to the bare facts rather than encouraging loyalty to Britain when covering subjects such as the Second World War or the British Empire, the Institute of Education researchers said. Teachers should not instill pride in what they consider great moments of British history, as more shameful episodes could be downplayed or excluded.

The slave trade, imperialism and 20th century wars should be taught as controversial issues while students are deciding how they feel about their country, the report says.

Three quarters of teachers felt obliged to tell students about the danger of patriotism. The survey suggested neither pupils nor teachers wanted patriotism endorsed by schools.

Historians said last night, however, that it was impossible to teach the subject without patriotism or a recognition that British values were rooted in the past.

The report criticises the current drive to use citizenship lessons as a way of promoting pride in being British and developing a sense of belonging. It said: “To love what is corrupt is itself corrupting, not least because it inclines us to ignore, forget, forgive or excuse the corruption. And there’s the rub for patriotism.

“Countries are morally ambiguous entities: they are what they are by virtue of their histories.”

The authors added: “It is hard to think of a national history free from the blights of warmongering, imperialism, tyranny, injustice, slavery and subjugation, or a national identity forged without recourse to exclusionary and xenophobic stereotypes.”

Alan Johnson, the former Education Secretary, announced last year that pupils aged 11 to 16 would have compulsory lessons in British history. Ethnicity, religion, race and national identity will be taught, through studying immigration, the Commonwealth, the Empire and devolution, extending the popular vote and women’s rights.

Gordon Brown said at the time: “There is a golden thread that intertwines the unshakeable British commitment to liberty with another very British idea: that of duty and social responsibility.”

But Dr Hand, the co-author of the report, said: “Gordon Brown and David Cameron have both called for a history curriculum that fosters attachment and loyalty to Britain, but the case for promoting patriotism in schools is weak.

“Are countries really appropriate objects of love? Loving things can be bad for us, for example when the things we love are morally corrupt. Since all national histories are at best morally ambiguous, it’s an open question whether citizens should love their countries.”

The institute - part of the University of London – asked nearly 300 pupils aged 13 to 14, and 47 teachers, in 20 London schools, how patriotism should be handled. About 94 per cent of teachers and 77 per cent of teenagers said that schools should give a balanced presentation of opposing views. Fewer than 10 per cent felt patriotism should be actively promoted.

However, 19 per cent of teachers and 16 per cent of teenagers thought schools should support patriotic views when expressed by pupils.The historian Tristram Hunt said of the institute’s report: “I think it’s a very immature approach to the topic. The point is not whether history was right or wrong from a 21st Century liberal-left perspective. It’s about teaching students to understand the mindset and context of our forebears.

“The real problem isn’t that our children are being indoctrinated with patriotism, but that they don’t know enough British history."

I only hope that correct historical facts are taught, and that patriotism or national-shame doesn't get in the way of this. Although this kid does look quite tacky:

I agree entirely with this. To say that much of British history is morally ambiguous is self-evident, and it would be stupid to suggest anything else. And personally I do not think the purpose of education is to make our children stupid. Look at these forums and how much damage blind patriotism has done to some people's intellects. Not my children.

[Syron]

I agree entirely with this. To say that much of British history is morally ambiguous is self-evident, and it would be stupid to suggest anything else.

And that is different to any other country how?

[Shaun]

And that is different to any other country how?

It's not. No one said otherwise.

[removeduser_487563287433]

And that is different to any other country how?

No different. But I would like to think we are more intellectual than self-harming nationalism.

[Clouse123456]

I like the idea of patriotism but historical accuracey is needed.Still id like the idea that the people coming into ur country show some freaking graditude and not burn ur own flag ,really its a matter of respect.