Religious AoR for SS 5.1

[OTZ]

Now compatible with Echad's Fix PAck 1.90. File attached
Hi all,

If you've been following my AoR thread (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=114716&page=9) you'll know that I plan to implement a religion-based AoR for the upcoming release of SS 6.0.

I have quickly developed a pared down version of it for SS 5.1 in order to get some people to test it and provide feedback. This is not the final version - just a part of it. I want to see if the religious aspect "feels right"

You'll find it attached to this thread - so please feel free to take a look at it, test it out, and let me know what you think.

The main changes are of course a requirement to maintain a certain level of your faction's religion in your settlements. Failing to do so will impact the types of units you can recruit.

Conquering another region that has a different religion thus becomes more challenging, forcing you to convert the population before you can recruit anything.

To make it more difficult, I have removed the ability to recruit priests/imams at the lowest level of churches/mosques.

The only thing not included in this file is the abilty to recruit "local" units. I merely want to get feedback on the recruitment-via-religion aspect.

This will change in future releases, as I intend to implement a full AoR mod similar to what I had released for SS 4.1...

Simply unzip the file into your M2TW/mods/SS/data folder.

I don't believe this will be compatible with RR.

[bobfish]

Savegame compatible?

[OTZ]

Should be...but I haven't tested it for sure though.

[Emerentius]

Hi, great idea, would like to try but what part of your txt can I copy/paste if I would want to keep "SS 5.1b Echad Fix Pack, last updated for version 1.8. "?

[Echad]

Just make sure that the last two entries, about Hagia Sophia and Great Aquduct are kept, you may replace everything else...

[Emerentius]

Hi Echad,
thank you for your quick reply but if I would do that I would get lines like
hanseatic_guild requires factions { northern_european, eastern_european, }
and loose
hanseatic_guild requires factions { northern_european, eastern_european, } and event_counter hanseatic_league 1
wich is from your data set.
Wouldn't that be a problem?

[Echad]

Ah, he used 5.1 file as a source... You should just merge such things from my file to his - this is actually a Hansetic Guild Fix by Quark, there are numerous such differencies. Just leave the recruitable units change in place... Although, I did added a few units for recruit, look in my readme for 'em. =)

OTZ - You was out of the forum for so long, so many new fixes appeared - you should use the files from my Fix Pack as a source, or at least provide compatible file.

[OTZ]

OTZ - You was out of the forum for so long, so many new fixes appeared - you should use the files from my Fix Pack as a source, or at least provide compatible file.

Thanks - I'll get to work on it then.

[Quark]

OTZ
While a nice idea I do not believe that religion on its own is the way to go with an AOR system, as it still means that for example, that Scotland could land in Crete and start producing Highlanders straight away. It also gives an advantage to catholic countries (which far outnumber the other groups).

Personally I would have thought that a colony chain of buildings was a better idea ie if Scotland lands in Crete they have to build a level one colony (to represent shipping people over) before they can produce some of their core units. This building would have a -2 happiness attribute (as the locals remember when they were free of scottish rule, a level 2 building -1).

You could combine the two ideas, but I think you need to level the field.

Another idea is to have hidden resources of europe, east_europe, africa and greek, so that for example it is fine for England to produce units in Germany, but by the time they get to Poland or anitolia, its to far. The issue with this method is of course factions such as HRE who neighbour Poland and would object to such a limit.

Ideally what you want is 'the further you go, the harder it is', so England should need a colony level one if in France-Italy, colony level two if in aniltolia and africa, just cannot see how to do that.

Also the concern is to allow those states that were crusading states the ability to be such. You do not want to make it to too hard for England to crusade to Jerusalem, so perhaps this area needs a hidden resource that allows for better recruitment by England, France, HRE, Venice and Genoa.

PS do not attach any military units to university, it will be outside the alchemist chain in 6.0.

Anyway good luck

[OTZ]

OTZ
While a nice idea I do not believe that religion on its own is the way to go with an AOR system, as it still means that for example, that Scotland could land in Crete and start producing Highlanders straight away. It also gives an advantage to catholic countries (which far outnumber the other groups).

Totally agree - I just want to test this out to see how it goes. I'll be implementing a more pure AoR mod, once 6.0 is released. The situation you describe won't happen...

Personally I would have thought that a colony chain of buildings was a better idea ie if Scotland lands in Crete they have to build a level one colony (to represent shipping people over) before they can produce some of their core units. This building would have a -2 happiness attribute (as the locals remember when they were free of scottish rule, a level 2 building -1).

Using buildings in my next AoR mod is what I want to do, but I've been having problems getting new buildings into the game. I also thought that taking up a building slot for x number of turns while the local culture acclimates to their conquerers might be counter productive.

You could combine the two ideas, but I think you need to level the field.

Yep - that's the plan I've got going in my other AoR thread.

Another idea is to have hidden resources of europe, east_europe, africa and greek, so that for example it is fine for England to produce units in Germany, but by the time they get to Poland or anitolia, its to far. The issue with this method is of course factions such as HRE who neighbour Poland and would object to such a limit.

Also a part of the master plan. I'll be using the mercenary regions as hidden resources. My previous version used this method and I think it worked well.

Ideally what you want is 'the further you go, the harder it is', so England should need a colony level one if in France-Italy, colony level two if in aniltolia and africa, just cannot see how to do that.

Also the concern is to allow those states that were crusading states the ability to be such. You do not want to make it to too hard for England to crusade to Jerusalem, so perhaps this area needs a hidden resource that allows for better recruitment by England, France, HRE, Venice and Genoa.

By using religion as a variable for recruitment, the solution to launching far flung campaigns into enemy territory is to bring along some priests/imams.

PS do not attach any military units to university, it will be outside the alchemist chain in 6.0.

Duly noted.

I think the AI actually has a difficult time recruiting units that aren't part of the recruitment pools of the traditional barracks units.

[Mafiozo]

OTZ
While a nice idea I do not believe that religion on its own is the way to go with an AOR system, as it still means that for example, that Scotland could land in Crete and start producing Highlanders straight away. It also gives an advantage to catholic countries (which far outnumber the other groups).

Personally I would have thought that a colony chain of buildings was a better idea ie if Scotland lands in Crete they have to build a level one colony (to represent shipping people over) before they can produce some of their core units. This building would have a -2 happiness attribute (as the locals remember when they were free of scottish rule, a level 2 building -1).

You could combine the two ideas, but I think you need to level the field.

Another idea is to have hidden resources of europe, east_europe, africa and greek, so that for example it is fine for England to produce units in Germany, but by the time they get to Poland or anitolia, its to far. The issue with this method is of course factions such as HRE who neighbour Poland and would object to such a limit.

Ideally what you want is 'the further you go, the harder it is', so England should need a colony level one if in France-Italy, colony level two if in aniltolia and africa, just cannot see how to do that.

Also the concern is to allow those states that were crusading states the ability to be such. You do not want to make it to too hard for England to crusade to Jerusalem, so perhaps this area needs a hidden resource that allows for better recruitment by England, France, HRE, Venice and Genoa.

PS do not attach any military units to university, it will be outside the alchemist chain in 6.0.

Anyway good luck

Buildings are a best choice if u can do it. You could maybe look in europa barbarorum how they done that. They also implemented in game colony buildings. If i think what you think , then for a English to fully convert Cairo with such buildings would take for example 30 years(let's say that in such 30 turns you built 6 colony level buildings and then cairo becomes a full English province). That is much better than going through religion.

[Emerentius]

Hi Echad, your updated data set is what I would like to keep.
so I will try it differently.... :hmmm:
Hi OTZ, what part of the data set did you change and I could paste into Echad's?

[Echad]

He changed MOST of data, so it's more smart to place my data into his - besides, except the guilds, line 124 Aztec fix, Greek Flamethrower fix and A few units that were unrecruitable for certain factions there isn't much added.

[Emerentius]

Hi Echad, I'n not sure what you mean. Isn't it more easy to get/collect the lines OTZ changed with regard the priests etc. and combine those with yours?
Btw. I don't know how to paste your data into his .txt and keep his changed lines.

[Echad]

OTZ changed unit availability based on religions, just compare them with ExamDiff and paste copy-paste some of my entries in text editor... The ones for guilds, for Greek Flamethrowers and line 124 Aztec Fix should be used from my file - you can wait for OTZ to merge others.

[IZ-Master]

Ideally what you want is 'the further you go, the harder it is', so England should need a colony level one if in France-Italy, colony level two if in aniltolia and africa, just cannot see how to do that.

U know that the farthest away u get from capital ur settlement gain unhappiness and stuff , can that triger be used and changed to represent this , like beside the squalor for being so far it also generate the effect we looking for ?

[Echad]

Well, I think Quark can cope with puting all the building in game himself...

Quark - have you found the source images for wonders, or finished 'em yourself? I want to add some wonder buildings, and creating them before I release my 2.00 Fix Pack would be very good, since it will be a huge update anyway. =)

[gracul]

Hmm, what about the distance to capitol, like IZ-Master mentioned?
Most of the times, armies were created in the motherlands of a country, atleast the core of them. Take a look at the Roman Empire, or at what Alexander or the Horde had, they couldn't properly reinforce their armies far outside their mainland.
Distance to capitol should be one of the factors of recruitment, maybe even more impotant then religion. If you are very far from the capitol, you could not build sometypes of units at all, with other 'better' units showing up in the que a lot more rare.

One might say "i can change the capitol with 1 click!" but while having a large empire, changing the capitol can be devastating if you want it only to build a couple of units. Thats why tho the units should not be avaible right after changing capitol.

[Emerentius]

Hi OTZ, thank you for creating the echad's compatible version as well.

[OTZ]

Hi OTZ, thank you for creating the echad's compatible version as well.

No worries - it was an easy conversion. Let me know what you think!

@Mafiozo - Thanks to Quark, I think I will be going with buildings in teh next major release.