menlaviatoi phalanx

**Numenor** · January 30, 2008, 02:35 PM

is it me, or the menlaviatoi phalanx isnt realy... a phalanx? i mean, not like in rtw at least. they look like the barbarians in bi. not the greek phalanx the unit should have...

**Pompeius Magnus** · January 30, 2008, 02:54 PM

First of all we have to explain that Phalanx means nothing else than:
roller or something like that in english. In german it is "Walze".

A Phalanx can be formed by nealry all troops.
Of course, nearly everybody connects the word "Phalanx" automaticly with the troops of Phillip II or his son Alexander or the Diadoch-states.

Even the Romans formed a so called "Macedonian Phalanx" in the 3rd century. But AD!!! (250AD-280AD). The troops were recruited in macedonia and on the pelopones and were sent to the eastern front against the Parthians. We also find a Phalanx named after the city of Sparta.
The troops never went to war like Alexanders' soldiers. Or in the case of the Spartian Phalanx they nevery fought like Hoplites. They still fought in roman fashion. They were still classified in Hastatii etc...
A name is only a name.

But in the early middle ages - even in the late antique - we see that the Eastern Romans (or Byzantines) found their sources of their Hellenistic culture.
The new units of our developer Basileios are reflecting in a great way the Roman Phalanx of the early medieval.

The new units, even the Phalangites, were introduced as answer against the mounted armies of the Sassanians.

Edit: on Wikipedia I see that the english name is "the finger".
Can anybody confirm that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_formation

2nd Edit:
Back to the question. I think that the Menavlatoi, the new units of Basileios, are fighting in a real Phalanx. They have the purpose to stop the enemy cavalry. And they do! They have bigger and thicker spears. They are a little bit smaller and more "handy".

Please have a look here (click me)
When the new version is coming out we also have plans to make a new presentation of all the new Roman (or Byzantine) units and their purposes.

**Basileios** · January 30, 2008, 05:17 PM

Historicly the main task of the Menavlatoi was to kill the armourded horses of an attacking enemy. In order to do so they, usually kneeled down before the front rank and stabbed the charging horses from below.
Since they were deployed in one rank only they can hardly be considered to form a phalanx themselves...

but they were supposed to support one!

An other task would be to protect the space between the taxiachy when facing infantry and to perform as some sort of fire-brigade running from one side of the formation to an other to support the endangered sector.

Especially due to the last point I provided the Menvlatoi in the current design with a shieldwall. This can easier be switched off, won't effect the ability of the unit to move fast and won't negate the new design of the menavlion.

**Basileios** · January 30, 2008, 05:22 PM

@Numenor

Nope! The menavlion was thick and heavy but of normal lenght! Its the kontarion makron used by the Hoplitai or Skoutatoi that was actually extremly long. As a matter of facts its them who actually form some sort of phalanx...

Btw the idea to implement archers in the phalanx goes at least back to Alexander the Great!

**Numenor** · January 30, 2008, 05:11 PM

I changed the phalanx spears couse they're useless.. They dont do a think, not even to cavalry.. and since the unit's expensive and has 1 turn to train, i suposed it had a longer spear |:

indeed, i was not expecting that the "phalanx" the menlaviatoi used would be equal to the macedonian one, but from my knowledge, i knew they existed and where used against heavy cavalry. i also THINK they used longer spears.

Anyway, first time playing the mod, enjoing untill now

**Numenor** · January 30, 2008, 05:26 PM

hmn hmn... then just one thing. the unit SUCKS in game

it's not worth the money nor the time. it cant kill a thing : s

**Basileios** · January 30, 2008, 05:35 PM

True indeed!

The current version has very little to do with the old design. Neither from its lack of effectiveness nor its appearance!

**Coni** · February 06, 2008, 09:32 AM

I like the Manavlatoi. Very nice unit.
Good work Basileios

**Basileios** · February 07, 2008, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Coni

I like the Manavlatoi. Very nice unit.
Good work Basileios

Thanks! I hope you refer to the so far available betas of the CBTW Byzantium Faction submod... I didn't design the Menavlatoi of the CTW 0.96 version!

As DaVinci already stated the latest Menavlatoi design will be part of the next CTW release!