When EU will have a real military force?

[Darsh]

The European Union is not a state and as such does not have its own dedicated military forces. There are a number of multi-national military and peacekeeping forces which are ultimately under the command of the EU. An early attempt (1952) to form a European Defence Community failed, but since then many politicians, including Guy Verhofstadt and Nicolas Sarkozy, promised to create a European military. As many of the 27 EU member states are also members of NATO, some EU states cooperate on defense policy (collective security) albeit primarily through NATO rather than through the EU or aligned group (such as the Western European Union). However, the memberships of the EU, WEU, and NATO are distinct, and some EU member states are constitutionally committed to remain neutral on defence issues. Several of the new EU member states were formerly members of the Warsaw Pact.

The EU currently has a limited mandate over defence issues, with a role to explore the issue of European defence agreed to in the Amsterdam Treaty, as well as oversight of the Helsinki Headline Goal Force Catalogue (the 'European Rapid Reaction Force') processes. However, some EU states may and do make multilateral agreements about defence issues outside of the EU structures...

...The new Treaty of Lisbon will merge a number of elements of the Western European Union (WEU) into the European Union, but not completely disestablish the WEU. It also says that:

'The common security and defence policy shall include the progressive framing of a common defence policy. This will lead to a common defence, when the European Council, acting unanimously, so decides'. (TEU, Article 27) [2]

British ministers initially objected to this clause. They wrote 'We believe that the European Council will not make that decision anytime soon. It is therefore inappropriate for the Treaty to pre-judge the decision of the European Council.' However, British ministers later gave way.

On the 23 March 2007, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, whose country held the EU presidency at that time, gave an interview in celebration of the EU's fiftieth birthday, in which she expressed the desire for a unified EU army.[1]

On 14 July 2007 French President Nicolas Sarkozy has called on the EU to create a unified military; soldiers from all 27 EU countries marched through the Champs-Elysees as part of that year's Bastille Day celebrations on the invitation of Sarkozy.[2]..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...European_Union

[King Edward III]

Never.

[antares24]

If the whole Eu project, as it's probable, continue, in the future a common military force is, imho, inevitable . It would start as a limited partnership between only a few of the more pro-integration members, possibly France, Italy, Germany and a few of the littler states, and then others will slowly join, while the brits as always in these matter will be the last.
It will however take some time, countries will probably start to seriously discussing it after all the new Eu reforms, that should ensure a better governability, are in place.

[wilting]

Who knows. A European military would require a lot more time, a major international crisis, or a breakdown in the transatlantic alliance, for whatever reason.

In terms of immediate requirements, I'd be more concerned with engaging in a move for organised common research and development, to avoid cost duplication and the development of a common logistics and deployment capacity. European defence spending simply isn't used as efficiently as in the US, for obvious reasons.

UN operations under EU auspices depend heavily on the transport capacity of the US as well UK and France, when these are tied up there can be serious problems getting an operation where it needs to be. So some kind of common logistics/transport endeavor would be most useful, especially given there are plenty of small States willing to participate in these operations, but lacking the deployment capacity to go about them and the resources to develop one.

In terms of a full European Military, I consider it important that Europe develop defense independence and not be dependent on a foreign power for its security. We will always be politically second place as long as this continues, regardless or economic or diplomatic clout. The problem is not only the blind nationalism that we see in this thread, but European sentiment about military action and defence spending. There needs to be a big political and cultural shift for a dramatic change in how Europe's military capacity is organised and for it's ultimate improvement, as much as political and defence leaders and experts might recognise the desirability of such a thing, the ability to actually develop it is very much limited by the circumstances of the day.

[finneys13]

We like our neutrality, so no.

But I would like to streamline the peacekeeping forces a lot, especially in time it takes to prepare a force. The new EU peacekeeping force in Chad took months to organise, and far too many nations put nothing towards it. France gave about 2,000 troops + support, Ireland 450 and Poland 400, which is a lot for Ireland, many times the French total per capita, and no one else offered any amount of troops for a peacekeeping mission in a troubled region.

All EU nations should have a responsibility to do their utmost to support UN mandated peace missions, and be much more rapid in deploying their troops.

[antares24]

We like our neutrality, so no.

do you think that an Eu military would be used for aggressive wars? With the Eu political climate?? An Eu force will be used for peacekeeping missions, and would be mostly a strong political and diplomatic weapon.

But I would like to streamline the peacekeeping forces a lot, especially in time it takes to prepare a force. The new EU peacekeeping force in Chad took months to organise, and far too many nations put nothing towards it. France gave about 2,000 troops + support, Ireland 450 and Poland 400, which is a lot for Ireland, many times the French total per capita, and no one else offered any amount of troops for a peacekeeping mission in a troubled region.

All EU nations should have a responsibility to do their utmost to support UN mandated peace missions, and be much more rapid in deploying their troops.

mmmm are you aware that there are a lot of UN peace missions in course? I suppose that by your logic ireland should send troops in Lebanon alongside Italian and French troops, and in all the other theatres of tension/conflict.

Imagine what political leverage Eu would have if all these troops were not under their respective nation banner but under a Eu banner also.

A Eu military force is all about this, increased political and diplomatic leverage.

[finneys13]

First point - I agree that the EU would not do aggressive wars, but each nation should keep ultimate control of their armed forces.

Second point - We are sort of saying the same thing, you want one unified army, I want the separate armies working much closer together on UN matters.

Ireland had troops in Lebanon for about 23 years on UN duty btw.

[antares24]

First point - I agree that the EU would not do aggressive wars, but each nation should keep ultimate control of their armed forces.

Second point - We are sort of saying the same thing, you want one unified army, I want the separate armies working much closer together on UN matters.

Ireland had troops in Lebanon for about 23 years on UN duty btw.

about Lebanon i'm not talking of the old Un mission, but the recent one that involve thousand of troops, not a few dozens

About your point about Eu armies, i partly agree with you, national army should not disappear (i frankly doubt that most of member states population will agree with such a bold move) , but ALONGSIDE them, a Eu army should be created.
There was talk, some time ago, of a Eu rapid reaction force, of , if i remember correctly, about 40.000 troops.
Enough to be deployed on several fronts for peacekeeping duties, enough to permit the Eu to have a much bigger leverage in international relations.
That would be the kind of army that will really suit Eu necessities, consider that, due to today political situation, an Eu army will not probably be used in open wars (against who the Eu could possibly have to fight a big war in the next 2-3 decades? The Russians? Bah), but just in intervention outside of our borders, for peacekeep and stabilization.
Then with time this Eu force could grow to include the various militaries of the continent, but this is a really far in the future thing.

[LoZz]

over my dead body.

i got 65 on my B.A.R.B test yesterday

[wilting]

over my dead body.

i got 65 on my B.A.R.B test yesterday

What's that? British arrogant radical bias?

[Heinz Guderian]

What's that? British arrogant radical bias?

British Army Recruit Battery test. a psychometric test which tests how fast your brain works. 65 is good. like special forces good. Lozz, are you in the special forces?

[King Edward III]

What's that? British arrogant radical bias?

We call it logic.

[Cavalier]

I think that the EU should probably start off by expanding the Battlegroups.

[jackwei]

If the balance power between the US and Russia plus China will change then i guess so and plus it would stop Russia from trying to bully EU states like the UK etc and it will make the world know that Europe is still there and we can do this.

It would also enable Europe to be more Independent from the US in terms of reliance on trade and military and rely on ourselves and own developments more than having joint programs etc with them.

I see this as the turning point for Europe itself and letting all the big powers of China, US and Russia know that we're capable of competing with you and no puppets to be used by any of you and tell them that Europe is on the rise again and not dead. Like i said earlier too the balance of power must change and Europe must no longer give in to the demands of the 3 big powers and is independent of the US and grown into a force to be reckoned with again in a new form.

[Richard]

The FRENCH wanting a European military? Or is it just SARKOZY and not actually 'the French'?

[Darsh]

The FRENCH wanting a European military? Or is it just SARKOZY and not actually 'the French'?

French with German.

[wilting]

It's worth pointing out that polls consistently show a majority of EU citizens in favour of greater foreign policy and defence cooperation. The first link there is from 1995, the latter from 2007.

http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/a...eo3/eo3_en.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/a...8_first_en.pdf

[NaptownKnight]

I think Europe would need a common threat to unite like that, there just isn't a good enough reason for the EU to have it's own millitary right now.

[hellheaven1987]

I think Europe would need a common threat to unite like that, there just isn't a good enough reason for the EU to have it's own millitary right now.

Ya, but that is too late most times.

Nevermind, people just like to be Greek, both their good and bad.

Edit: Oh wait, I suddenly realize when most European country cannot afford 6th generation jet fighter = the day EU Armed Force form.

[Fianóglach]

Just what we Soldiers need, instead of one large group of incompetent politicians delaying action while they debate for months at a time... hundreds of incompetent politicians delaying action while they debate for months at a time. The less politicians are involved in the military decision making process the better. I Don't realistically see a EU Military as being even a mildly good idea. I speak from experience of spending 4 months training in an EU Battlegroup. If there was one upside it was the Norwegian army female staff officers...