Capitals really do Revolt!

**Old Geezer** · January 29, 2008, 07:47 AM

I was beginning to believe that capitals never would revolt or that the probability is akin to rolling snake eyes 3x in a row. The latter may not be far off. I just had Constantinople revolt after destroying its infrastructure constantly for about 50 turns to bring its contentment down to near zero every turn. I did the same for Rome, Milan, and Genoa. Only Rome has not revolted and the Pope is not even home. But what is with the AI? It doesn't even try to move units in to bring contentment up. Does it know that it won't help the odds?

**miccofl** · January 29, 2008, 07:58 AM

I like nothing more than putting 5-9 spies in a capitol (or any other) city, having my assassins destroy their happiness buildings and sending the city into revolt. Sometimes I am successful, sometimes the AI manages to beef things up and just barely keep control. It is far more effective when one is going up against another religion though because then you can priest-spam it in addition to the spies and assassins. Have a diplomat handy and you can usually buy a rioting settlement for cheap and save your power units for some meaningful battle.

**Pyrebound** · January 29, 2008, 01:01 PM

Sometimes in SS 5.1 Rome revolts itself, then pope has to conquer it back.

I know, its weird

**pwijnands** · January 30, 2008, 02:01 AM

Has anyone ever noticed that the AI can somehow get an increase in public order in new turns, without converting religion, adding spies, repairing buildings or recruiting/adding new units?
I swear I had a city on the brink of revolt a few times and each time when a new turn started the public order would increase by 30-40%. Really annoying when you try to make a town revolt.

I had the same thing happen in Stainless Steel, I got a message saying that Rome had fallen at the 5th turn or so.

**Cyrus Spitama** · January 30, 2008, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by pwijnands

Has anyone ever noticed that the AI can somehow get an increase in public order in new turns, without converting religion, adding spies, repairing buildings or recruiting/adding new units?
I swear I had a city on the brink of revolt a few times and each time when a new turn started the public order would increase by 30-40%. Really annoying when you try to make a town revolt.

Maybe the AI lowered the taxes, no?

**Cyrus Spitama** · January 30, 2008, 02:08 AM

One question: do spies add up when it comes to unrest? Having more than a spy inside a city will add more unrest or does it just go up according to the highest ranked spy in town?

**pwijnands** · January 30, 2008, 02:13 AM

Well, lowering taxes doesn't get you three increases of 30% each. I'll have to check in-game what the penalties/bonusses to public order are for various tax levels.

Sometimes adding more spies adds to unrest, but I think there is a cap on how many unrest they can cause. Because when I add more than three spies I never see the public order go down anymore, sometimes it stalls on the first spy. Haven't checked up on their subterfuge rating though.

**Old Geezer** · January 30, 2008, 07:01 AM

I agree with pwijnands, I have never seen unrest increase after 3 spies, despite their levels.

The AI city which seemingly inexpicably has an increase in order could be lowering taxes or if the same general is there then he could be getting some new bonus that turn. If you have spies in the city you can obtain the info on the general's stats. I don't remember if the tax level is shown, but I think it is - I'm old and forgets lots.

**miccofl** · January 30, 2008, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by pwijnands

Well, lowering taxes doesn't get you three increases of 30% each. I'll have to check in-game what the penalties/bonusses to public order are for various tax levels.

I must agree; there seem to be times when nothing you do to a city will make it revolt (of course if you want to cheat: add_population TargetCity 4000(x3)

Originally Posted by pwijnands

Sometimes adding more spies adds to unrest, but I think there is a cap on how many unrest they can cause. Because when I add more than three spies I never see the public order go down anymore, sometimes it stalls on the first spy. Haven't checked up on their subterfuge rating though.

You could be onto something there; I'll have to keep a closer eye on things next time I try it.

**kittenslayer** · January 30, 2008, 02:16 PM

****in hell, I almost forgot about spies and ****. Maybe thats why COnstinoples and Thesslania(hopefully spelt that right) are unhappy. Need to get my assassin to do a check on those settlements.

**pwijnands** · January 30, 2008, 02:20 PM

Assassins aren't particularly good at checking for spies in settlements, use your own spies instead followed by an assassin to clean them up. I've had cases where I could find only two characters in a city until I moved a spy close by, he reveiled an additional four characters.

And I think it's Constantinople and Thessalonica.

**kittenslayer** · January 30, 2008, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by pwijnands

Assassins aren't particularly good at checking for spies in settlements, use your own spies instead followed by an assassin to clean them up. I've had cases where I could find only two characters in a city until I moved a spy close by, he reveiled an additional four characters.

And I think it's Constantinople and Thessalonica.

I am annoyed with those two places, I had to keep FULL garrisons in them to keep them at 80% content. Those Hungarian dogs keeps on trying to siege em. Not to mentioning Byzantian scums trying to take them back!

**Old Geezer** · January 31, 2008, 07:14 AM

If you take a spy to an AI city and hover the cursor over it, it will show you the percentage for success. If the spy is even mediocre you won't get a very low number like 15 percent unless the AI has a spy (for that faction) in there. If you do get a low number, be assured there is at least one spy in there. Your spy who just sits next to the city can't see the AI spies in there, he'll have to infiltrate to see them. Such can be good training for assassins once the AI spies are revealed.

**pwijnands** · January 31, 2008, 07:48 AM

Well, I finally managed to make some settlements revolt. I made the capital of Novgorod rebel, as well as Antioch. I tried to do the same with a Hungarian city by executing a lone general inside of it, after he was dead public order dropped to 0%. At the start of my new turn the AI had trained three units and the public order shot up to 80% again. I then had to resort to sabotaging every building that gave public order and it's down to 40% again. I hope it goes rebel, I have an army waiting near it's port to get ashore and take it.

**kittenslayer** · January 31, 2008, 02:03 PM

Thanks for telling me about spies, I totally forgot about their functions! trained two spies and sent them into Constinoples and Thesslanica, they instantly spotted the Hungarians spies and kicked them out, instantly the happiness in those cities jumped up. I am gonna try to send out a army of spies and priest to cause Havoc in Byzantine territory tonight! Wish me luck!