Honesty or Dishonesty?

**~~Sleeper~~** · January 28, 2008, 11:53 PM

Which is it better to reward? Is success all that matters or does the means of success play a part?

Who are we as people if we allow honest men to suffer at the hands of individuals in positions of power who society has already deemed dishonest?

Are societies which reward dishonesty and condemn honesty societies which deserve to continue?

What are the factors involved in such judgments?

Should criminals be condemned forever after by systems which are later shown to have been overseen by individuals which a society has deemed overzealous and possibly even corrupt?

Answer any of the questions or think up new ones.
How important is honesty in the end all?
Or what is honesty in the end all?

**Gaidin** · January 29, 2008, 12:57 AM

Welcome to the grey world.

**~~Sleeper~~** · January 29, 2008, 01:26 AM

Is a grey world really grey?
Are we better or worse off with grey?

What does a grey world mean concerning questions of punishment and reward?

**Roman Knight** · January 29, 2008, 01:44 AM

It depends on if you're a consequentialist or an absolutist, the result or the act:hmmm:

**Dracula** · January 29, 2008, 03:09 AM

To me personally the means to success matter enourmously much .It lacks flavour if you break too many rules on the way .Makes it unworthy .

Honesty is naturall .But there aren't rules how honesty vs. dishonesty stays .The life is a constant change in which course people learn they better stick to the honesty .They may be dishonest sometimes yet it is a part of their realisation . If they choose the dishonesty however,they'll be destroyed . If not materially/financially ,for sure as persons .

**Roman Knight** · January 29, 2008, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by Dracula

To me personally the means to success matter enourmously much .It lacks flavour if you break too many rules on the way .Makes it unworthy .

Honesty is naturall .But there aren't rules how honesty vs. dishonesty stays .The life is a constant change in which course people learn they better stick to the honesty .They may be dishonest sometimes yet it is a part of their realisation . If they choose the dishonesty however,they'll be destroyed . If not materially/financially ,for sure as persons .

Have you ever ever heard of a white lie?

The line between a white lie and a black lie is very grey though...

**Gaidin** · January 29, 2008, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Sleeper

Is a grey world really grey?
Are we better or worse off with grey?

What does a grey world mean concerning questions of punishment and reward?

It means context matters.

**eventhorizen** · January 29, 2008, 10:54 AM

"The honest man walks alone"

Plato - The Republic.

**HopliteElite** · January 29, 2008, 02:56 PM

There is nothing inherently wrong with deception. If one cannot see through your lies or prove you to be a liar then one deserves the consequences of being fooled. Of course, being honest can have its perks too, which I why I'd say be honest as long as it doesn't hurt you, but if it will, be dishonest.

**~~Ummon~~** · January 30, 2008, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by eventhorizen

"The honest man walks alone"

Plato - The Republic.

He should have added: and he knows why he does.

**Spurius** · January 29, 2008, 04:49 AM

I thought areas were grey, and lines thin.

Truth, always - although it can cost you. At least be honest to yourself at all times, and file the rest under 'polite' and 'conflict avoidance', if you must.

**Da Skinna** · January 29, 2008, 09:08 AM

Honesty could mean speaking out of turn and saying something awful, and hiding behind "honesty".

Is honesty even virtuous? There are times, I think, when honesty is needed, or when it's needed most, but honesty can do just as many bad things as something else, just they are up front about it, rather than having you to peel layers.

**Blau&Gruen** · January 29, 2008, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Sleeper

Which is it better to reward? Is success all that matters or does the means of success play a part?

Who are we as people if we allow honest men to suffer at the hands of individuals in positions of power who society has already deemed dishonest?

Are societies which reward dishonesty and condemn honesty societies which deserve to continue?

What are the factors involved in such judgments?

Should criminals be condemned forever after by systems which are later shown to have been overseen by individuals which a society has deemed overzealous and possibly even corrupt?

Answer any of the questions or think up new ones.
How important is honesty in the end all?
Or what is honesty in the end all?

Good questions.

To be able to be honest to yourself is already a kind of reward. It could be interpreted as a form of freedom which no one can take from you but yourself by ignoring it. To be able to be honest to others poses more complex problems as you have in social contextes sometimes to consider the well-being of more than one person (yourself). You should, so I would think, not instrumentalize the weekness of your next to gain an advantage, generally spoken. You should on the other hand not allow others to instrumentalize you, of course, as that could be a sin either. You can "lie" with other words and do something social and good by it in the perspective I just have tried to circumscribe. It is then a question of the balance between values. The "life" of another person should be a value higher than the intactness of your own "honesty".

**rathelios** · January 30, 2008, 03:03 AM

Societies, like TWCland for example, belong to those that make the rules. Those who decide what is right and wrong, who is to be reprimanded or indefinitely banned. Justice is not a naturally occurring entity. Humanity created it and continually modifies it as it sees fit. Perhaps we should either accept this or move on.