Civ feature I would like to see in M2TW

[tallstark]

I love both games so I am not complaining, and the differences have made it fun to play both so far. Something I miss from Civ now that I have done a few campaigns in M2TW is the relationship between resources, technology and a new map.

In Civ you never knew what was where when you started so you had to plan new every game. If a new technology came along and you didn't have access to the right resources, you needed to change plans immediately. ifg you have never played Civ, the basic idea is if the "Iron Age" came along and you had no iron resource in your control, you needed to arrange to get some PDQ or you got left behind and those that had it came and tooled your bronze age armies. Also a new map generates at the start of every game so you don't know where the resources are or have the coastlines memorized etc...

In M2TW, I know it is a good idea to send someone towards where I now know is Timbuktu, every time. if I have no mines in my entire empire, I still have the same access to swords and armor and no price difference whatsoever.

Obviously it would not have nearly the same "realism" to generate a new map every game as it does to play historical Europe, but it would still be fun and each faction would still have its own "flavor."

Also, what do you think of the idea of resources affecting availability to weapons, armor or upgrades? It would make an interesting game dynamic. Its also totally realistic; Kuwait for instance has no legitimate military power in the world but look what happened when someone decided to blitz it?

Imagine Spain turtles on its peninsula, but is providing "Toledo Steel, +1 AP to all melee weapons" to its 5 trading partners. One of them steps out of line and they end trade relationships; will the other 4 protect their flow of goods or do they all pile on?

Just noodling, but some resource = benefit ideas
Slaves = cheaper construction costs
Wines = +1 to Inn and Brothel effects, good and bad
Sulphur = prereq for gunpowder units
Citrus = needed for transatlantic (Limeys!!!)
Furs = +1 movement in winter

Of course it would require a big overhaul in AI, as most of their decisions right now are too random and it would really probably be a nightmare with things being available then not every few turns.

Overall M2TW is still way more fun and I see with all the mod work done there are many different flavors once you get bored with Vanilla but its always fun to talk about what if! Thank goodness for all of you modders out there for saving us, CA should be sending you guys checks LOL

[Captain Spanky]

I think that having a randomly generated map for every new game would make things very interesting indeed, though it probably wont excite those with historical interests. That said, I would definetly play it.

Have some rep for thinking outside of the box.

[Harry Lime]

It would indeed make every campaign truly unique especially allied with a Civ style FOW but at the moment it's not possible to do.. and quite probably never will be.. .

[Lord Snow]

I quite like the idea of random resource placement, it would definitely add to the replay value of the game. I think it would work best if each region had three or four different resources to cycle through, so the game could still keep some historical accuracy though.

The resources affecting buildings and supplies idea is brilliant. It would add a touch more depth to the game without things getting tedious.

[Baron Thunder-ten-tronckh]

Well they make a FOW around the Americas, and in BC (broken Crescent) there is a FOW around Tibet, so why not make it the entire world? And then your faction, wherever it starts, would illuminate that certain part of the FOW.

[Snizel]

I never understood what was so good about Civilization IV. There was such a massive hype about the game that i bought it after playing CivII, which i enjoyed. All i found i was doing in CivIV was just clicking end turn repeatably. The most i did a turn was:Set my workers to auto-build, produced settlers and military units, click on some tech i wanted and built a building i was recommended, and maybe engage in relations with another civ. I couldn't understand how people could play the game for hours and how it got such a high ranking when nothing about it seemed to be entertaining enough to keep me playing after i got bored of clicking end turn. I am really into strategy games but just couldn't get into CivIV.

[Pyrebound]

I never understood what was so good about Civilization IV. There was such a massive hype about the game that i bought it after playing CivII, which i enjoyed. All i found i was doing in CivIV was just clicking end turn repeatably. The most i did a turn was:Set my workers to auto-build, produced settlers and military units, click on some tech i wanted and built a building i was recommended, and maybe engage in relations with another civ. I couldn't understand how people could play the game for hours and how it got such a high ranking when nothing about it seemed to be entertaining enough to keep me playing after i got bored of clicking end turn. I am really into strategy games but just couldn't get into CivIV.

I found Civ IV exactly like that, though i didnt play I, II or III. Especially the battle system was boring, to attack you needed tons of forces and you just ended up constantly attacking to weaken the enemy in the city until you would capture it. If you fail on the first try, you need to build up your forces again as the enemy just heals to full in 1-3 turns.. It was just end turn end turn choose tech train settler over there end turn end... turn. Yawn.

[Baron Thunder-ten-tronckh]

I just found it incredily enjoyable the fact that you could build cities wherever you wanted. In TW you have plenty of provinces to take over, in CivIV, you can take over enemy cities, AND you can build your own, so, instead of having to go to war with someone, you could just build more cities.

[Mythlacar]

I'd really like to see this as well, Merchants would definatly become a larger asset.

For the most part right now I just make a boat filled with merchants I've trained up in Europe and steal all the sugar in the middle east haha

[HANDsolo]

I would have liked the special resource feature too. It would add a much needed dimension to the diplomacy, as you would need to negotiate with other factions for access to these resources just like it is on Civ 4. Maintaining good relations with other factions would be important. Currently, it's not important at all.

I also like how Civ 4 is transparent about most things. What I mean is that it shows the player how things are calculated. For example, Civ 4 shows you the positive and negative things that determine your relationship with another Civilization (-1 Our close borders spark tension, +2 a mutual enemy has brought us closer together). This way you can tell what you need to do to improve or damage relationships. This is a game after all, so they shouldn't make the player have to guess or pull out a calculator to work things out. Something as simple as showing how many points a settlement has accumulated to each guild would be a huge convenience. Why keep these things from the player.

I like the diplomacy in Civ 4. It's simple but effective. It shows the player what things the other civ will not trade and why, so no need for trial and error. It's also easier to determine what another civ wants in exchange for something you have and vice versa.

I like the unique city models that grow as the city grows. Much better than the settlement models on the M2TW campaign map which is just square wall with three buildings in it.

[Cyrus Spitama]

I like the idea of having the resources in a region affect the buildings you could build there and what they could offer, making it more specific, important and personalized than just a faceless city. The random resource thing I don't agree with, it would make things silly if the traditionally eastern spices spawned all over Germany and England, for example.

[miccofl]

As someone who found Civ4 to be little more than Civ3 with fancy graphics and a new UI I hope that CA stays on their own path. When I want a different map, I find a different mod or play Kingdoms.

The required resource to build certain buildings can be and has been done through modding; DLV uses iron and a hidden metropolis resource (there are other hidden resources as well) to trigger certain upgrades and without them the settlement only goes so far.

I have Civ3 and all expansions installed, I use it only when I get the Conquests Intersite Democracy Game turn and have no desire to play it otherwise.
Civ4 and Warlords is also installed and does nothing more than take up space on my drive.
M2TW on the other hand is loaded up daily and is sometimes played obsessively; just one more turn... ok, one more... hmmm, it's midnight; just one more...

Civ just can't do that for me any more and I would just as soon leave its features (or are they bugs) behind; Total War is where it's at. Sorry Sid.

[tallstark]

Yeah my point wasn't a one versus the other, I think M2TW is a much more interesting game!

The idea came about after seeing some show about how the process to make a Damascene (sp?) forged weapon was an intensely guarded secret for years and years and a big part of that process was what ingredients went in to the metal. Crusaders held the middle eastern weapons to be of superior quality and this was a result of their forges having access to wootz steel from somewhere near India. (Thanks Discovery Channel!)

it immediately reminded me of Civ where I have on occasion found myself with no metals in my territory so I needed to change plans immediately and thought "what would happen in my M2TW world if all my knights were dressed in leathers?" LOL sounds like a Village People video in the making!!

[DrIstvaan]

Hey, nice thread over here! Altough with M2TW's game mechanics these functions are plain impossible, it is interesting as a "what if" line of thinking. Also, your post is very well thought out.
Here, have some +rep from me as well!
Having seen some other posts of your, I must say, you seem to be a very promising member of TWC!

[tallstark]

thanks for positive feedback Dr and others! To be honest I don't know what +rep does but I assume its nice LOL.

[Harry Lime]

To be honest I don't know what +rep does but I assume its nice LOL.

Rings & Crowns mate, mere baubles but the ladies like 'em .

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[mikeb32123]

Great idea, absolutely delicious

I'd like there to maybe be an option on the screen where you set up your campaign before starting, you can choose whether to have realistic resources or have them randomly generated. And I very much like the idea of having resources have more effects. Maybe you don't need a merchant trading them for the effects, you get the effect if the resource is in your lands *or* you have a merchant trading them. Or something. Great thinking.

[roy34543]

i would really enjoy technologies in the total war series being expanded in general.
You could pay to develop faster horses for your country, or crossbows, or Lances
Of course each faction would start out with a better maximum available and starting technolgoy in one area. but it would be inteeresting.

[DrIstvaan]

I have a much more modest wish than these; I would appreciate it even if only the diplomacy system would be close to Civ's. It is ridiculous how stupid these Medieval kings can be, p.e. rejecting a ceasefire at the odds of 25:1 against them.
Of course, this can be modded, but there are two awkward things about this.
1)Altough it CAN be modded, what we can do on this terrain is severely limited.
2)It is such a basic element of the game that CA should have spent more time with it, not leave it to the modders.

[Vor]

A game with a Civ strat map and TW battles would be truly epic.