RTR should have peasants!

[AqD]

I re-created the unit myself and found it's really useful. It could be used as garrison troops or transfer citizens from one city to another.

I give it 1 attack and 0 defense, and very low cost and the survivability from their attack is 90%, so basically they cannot kill anyone. What's interesting is they do kill in automatic-resolve battles - in fact I destroyed a half stack of macedonean phalanx units by 4 full stacks of peasants, and a lot of them are dead, thus removed both of the enemy and the squalor problem
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Garbryelle live

[florin80]

Why in the world would you want to fight full peasant armies instead of real warrior armies? Besides, what do you think the low level warbands of the barbarian factions(for example) are?

[Brusilov]

But with cheap, 0 turn-recruited peasants you can get a full stack of garrison troopers immediately, and raise the public order, and most of time you wouldn't have to exterminate newly-captured cities or even destroy their buildings - all that comes with little cost.

peasants cannot fight - they're non-combatant and *professional* garrison units! (I made my peasants costs 100 and have upkeep 10, like rebel units)

Because when your cities are growing too fast and have serious squalor problem, making happiness/law buildings takes too long and sometimes it'd be too late, so you have to *remove* people. It's a logical choice when some units can be recruited in 0 turn (which is how I play RTR) - on huge scale you can get rid of 240*9 = 2160 people overnight - and maybe send them to hell or to a small town to boost the population.

BTW for garrison the "number" seems to have much more effects than cost, I noticed a full stack of cheap peasants bring much more public order than expensive cavalry units (240 vs 80).

If you post back within a limited period please edit the first post. If you don't the moderators will eventually pick this up and merge them for you. It is far easier for them (and they are busy) if you do this.

As you are modifying the game to suite your requirements you are no longer playing RTR..... RTR does not do 0 turn recruitment. Did you mod that in as well?

As I posted previously it takes some planning to ensure that squalor isn't that bad in the first place.

As for peasants not being a military unit your first post has already indicated that you use them in that fashion: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...71&postcount=1

[AqD]

As I posted previously it takes some planning to ensure that squalor isn't that bad in the first place.

Yeah you need to build health & temples & happiness buildings in the first place. But it doesn't solve the squalor problem. In fact by making people happier and healther you get faster growth rate, and soon the face turns red while you're still upgrading all the temple/health buildings. Eventually you won't be able to counter it, unless you send some citizens away or have a huge garrison.
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LIVE SEX

[Brusilov]

Yeah you need to build health & temples & happiness buildings in the first place. But it doesn't solve the squalor problem. In fact by making people happier and healther you get faster growth rate, and soon the face turns red while you're still upgrading all the temple/health buildings. Eventually you won't be able to counter it, unless you send some citizens away or have a huge garrison.

A decent governor will sort out most problems.

If you've been building academies and upgrading them you should be "producing" governors with decent traits frequently to keep most cities in the green without low taxes or huge garrisons. It's all about management.

Believe me, I had a Roman campaign where I owned most of the map and have a similar one for Macedon.

[Brusilov]

As florin80 posted there are plenty of low cost and upkeep units out there to use as garrison troops.

Also, including peasants will take up a unit slot which means one less unit available. This may affect future RTR games.

In order to reduce squalor it just takes a bit of town planing from the start by building happy building such as sewers etc before 'industrial' buildings. If you take over a settlement if you enslave or exterminate then you will create time to produce these buildings before your population becomes large again.

[AqD]

But with cheap, 0 turn-recruited peasants you can get a full stack of garrison troopers immediately, and raise the public order, and most of time you wouldn't have to exterminate newly-captured cities or even destroy their buildings - all that comes with little cost.

peasants cannot fight - they're non-combatant and *professional* garrison units! (I made my peasants costs 100 and have upkeep 10, like rebel units)

Why in the world would you want to fight full peasant armies instead of real warrior armies? Besides, what do you think the low level warbands of the barbarian factions(for example) are?

Because when your cities are growing too fast and have serious squalor problem, making happiness/law buildings takes too long and sometimes it'd be too late, so you have to *remove* people. It's a logical choice when some units can be recruited in 0 turn (which is how I play RTR) - on huge scale you can get rid of 240*9 = 2160 people overnight - and maybe send them to hell or to a small town to boost the population.

BTW for garrison the "number" seems to have much more effects than cost, I noticed a full stack of cheap peasants bring much more public order than expensive cavalry units (240 vs 80).
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Iolite Vaporizor Review

[Emperor Domitianus]

I think peasants are important for one reason.
When you capture a city and pillage it for maximum income, building a peasant army would help to repopulate the city and help where cities are too crowded.

[AngryTitusPullo]

I think peasants are important for one reason.
When you capture a city and pillage it for maximum income, building a peasant army would help to repopulate the city and help where cities are too crowded.

Wait til you meet whole peasant legion AI on battlefield.

Seriously I always 'repopulate' cities with mercs of excess units.

[Brusilov]

I think peasants are important for one reason.
When you capture a city and pillage it for maximum income, building a peasant army would help to repopulate the city and help where cities are too crowded.

You don't need to pillage every settlement. If they have a similar culture to you then it's possible to occupy it.

If you exterminate you miss out on the possibility of decent tax income which is a short term bonus compared with an immediate cash injection.

I exterminate some settlements where the culture difference is too great or if the faction was previously my ally and back stabbed me - definitely happens to their capital....

If settlements are too crowded simply recruit the cheapest unit possible (javelins probably) and then sent them elsewhere as garrison troops. You obviously need to build up the settlement infrastructure before being able to do this.

If you don't want to occupy just enslave and get a population boost elsewhere in your empire.

[khshayathiya]

I remember at some poit I had coded in a unit "Colonists" with exactly these properties - 0 turns to recruit and very poor attack and defence. Guess what hordes invaded me next?

Yup - drones of colonists, knife in hand, eager to poke my eyes out with toothpicks.

[AqD]

Yeah you need raise the initial cost so the AI wouldn't even bother to create them.

most of time AI doesn't do that. The only faction I saw that use them is the thracians, which were dying and probably because all they still have are newly-captured rebel cities which cannot produce other units
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LIVE SEX

[florin80]

The AI will recruit them no matter the cost for two main reasons:
1. it is not actually smart and if it has the money it will buy them.
2. it will train them because in a lot of places he might not have access to other types of troops for one or other reason(barracks are damaged or non existent). This is especially true in RTR where because of the aor/auxilia system the barracks are faction specific and you have to start from scratch.

[AqD]

But AI would not train them if they have no value, besides they can always get mercenary units. The chance that AI would train such useless units are almost 0% in rtr-alx
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AmazingSquirt

[florin80]

Can`t speak for Alexander, but have you tried this in RTW v1.5 or even on BI v1.6? And I mean for a certain amount of time, not just a couple of turns.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Here's an idea: Create a "peasants"-like unit, and call them "colonists." They have 0 attack, 0 defense, and little to no cost. They are only there to transfer population around. You "disband" them in a new city to add them to that new city's population. Catch is, they are essentially defenseless. They also add no attack or defense to a stack (and take up a slot to boot). This would probably be better for R2TW, because of the hardcoded AI.

[AqD]

That's exactly what I'm doing

But 0 attack crashes alex. You have to give it 1 and raise the survivability under their attack. In real battle they cannot kill anyone but to tire your enemies. However they can do a lot of kills in auto-resolving mode - numbers like 10:1 or 20:1 would usually give a victory.

So, instead of exterminating populations for your newly-captured cities, you could mass create peasants and send them to weaken the enemy or rebels
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Kemekohot cam

[MCM]

Well as a historical mod,
based on supposed 'realism' concept..

Good luck with your desires, but they dont really have a place with RTR

have fun though and good luck!

[morteduzionism]

Well as a historical mod,
based on supposed 'realism' concept..

Good luck with your desires, but they dont really have a place with RTR

have fun though and good luck!

Right! Why do you play a mod that emphasizes historical realism only to change it into something...else?

I wouldn't mind the unit Peasant being available(they looked better when you zoomed into a city)...but the way in which it's being suggested to use them

If you want to do that, play Vanilla(which has Peasants already) and do whatever you want to.

[morteduzionism]

I re-created the unit myself and found it's really useful. It could be used as garrison troops or transfer citizens from one city to another.

Why not just use Italic Velites or Peltasts? They both have '0' turn recruitment and relatively low upkeep.

They both(Italic Velites/Peltasts) can be used as garrison troops or to transfer citizens from one city to another.

Or you could use Illyrian Spearmen, Gallic Warband, Illyrian Skirmishers, Mercenary Hoplites, Gallic Swordsmen, Gallic Slingers, etc All of which have '0' turn recruitment.

And since you want to use peasants as soldiers, why not just use the '0' turn soldiers already available?

I give it 1 attack and 0 defense, and very low cost and the survivability from their attack is 90%, so basically they cannot kill anyone.

So why are they useful?

At least with the other units they have some attack(and they're already in the game so no modding is needed) and defence.

For the purposes that you want to use peasants there're already numerous units available. I'm not sure what you made their recruitment cost but Peltasts(without a discount) cost less than 200 denarii to recruit and their upkeep is less than 150.