Customer Service

[morteduzionism]

Instead of ranting about my hatred for Verizons' use of Indians and other non-English speaking people to staff 99% of its' call-centers I'd like to ask a question:

I'm not sure how to phrase it but I'd like to know if the reverse happens? Do Spanish companies and Indian companies create call centers in America and force their Spanish/Hindi speaking customers to call America for customer service?

It's so frustrating to need assistance and to have to listen to someone repeating a script that they learned by memorization. In essence you really don't get any help whatsoever.

Isn't this a potential argument against capitalism? Honestly, what options do we as English speaking consumers have? Is there a company that guarantees native english speaking people as customer service agents? If every major company, particularly ones that have customer service departments, legally outsource the work. What can the customers do but suffer?

[GrnEyedDvl]

Instead of ranting about my hatred for Verizons' use of Indians and other non-English speaking people to staff 99% of its' call-centers I'd like to ask a question:

I'm not sure how to phrase it but I'd like to know if the reverse happens? Do Spanish companies and Indian companies create call centers in America and force their Spanish/Hindi speaking customers to call America for customer service?

I doubt it as its all related to money.

Isn't this a potential argument against capitalism? Honestly, what options do we as English speaking consumers have? Is there a company that guarantees native english speaking people as customer service agents? If every major company, particularly ones that have customer service departments, legally outsource the work. What can the customers do but suffer?

No, its an argument FOR capitalism. Move your capital someplace else, ie switch services, write letters, call the local office and chew their ass. Companies do things in certain ways because there is a dollar incentive. If the dollars go away, they change.

If you force a company to act in a certain way via law, they will find ways to save money anyways. Such as hiring 1 English speaker to service the entire country, and say they followed the law. What do you do then? Write a law that says they have to hire x amount of employees? Or that their call times can only be x minutes? Where does it end then?

[morteduzionism]

No, its an argument FOR capitalism. Move your capital someplace else, ie switch services, write letters, call the local office and chew their ass.

Move capital someplace else? Where? You mean start getting phone/net service from one of these little rinky dink start-up companies? An unestablished company with NO track record for reliability? EVERY person I know that has Comcast phone service ABSOLUTELY HATES IT! The majority of them only get it because it's cheaper.

Furthermore, what guarantee is there that this smaller company wont, in effort to save customers money, outsource it's customer service call centers? The answer: no guarantee whatsoever.

Write letters/complain? Have done both more than once. I even specifically ask for NATIVE english speaking people if/when I do call customer service.

Companies do things in certain ways because there is a dollar incentive. If the dollars go away, they change.

But for some services (i.e. phone/net) the choices are limited. Also, sometimes you get what you pay for. I'm not interested in being a Beta tester for a new phone company.

If you force a company to act in a certain way via law, they will find ways to save money anyways.

They do that regardless of whether their is a law or not. Their whole raison d'etre is to make money.

Such as hiring 1 English speaker to service the entire country, and say they followed the law. What do you do then?

That'd be fine with me. I'd ask to speak to that person.

Write a law that says they have to hire x amount of employees? Or that their call times can only be x minutes? Where does it end then?

My response to this is somewhat off topic...but this wouldn't be necessary if there was a) a such thing as American Culture and b) respect/consideration for Americans by Americans.

I mean, I need a translator to order food at McDonalds!? I don't know if you eat at McD's but nearly EVERY McD's in this area(Washington, DC) is staffed by NON ENGLISH speaking people! From the manager to the custodian more often than not there's not one single NATIVE English employee.

Radio Shack, same way.

Who's to blame(if there is any) for this? McDonalds, Corp? The local manager? The general apathy of Americans towards things American? The lack of an English speaking American culture? Who? What?

As for where does it end? It ends when 'American' companies are able to give its' native English speaking people the customer service they deserve. Can you imagine this happening anywhere else? Do Bouygues customers call customer service and get an English speaking person in Plano, TX(USA)?

The reason I said is this an argument against capitalism is that...pro-capitalist(companies/citizens) only care about oportunity/money. They don't care about the annual summer festival in Small Neighborhood, USA. People are so terrified of any idea besides capitalism that they automatically reject anything not capitalism. The problem, as I see it, is that this way of thinking is destroying America. While other countries are getting stronger(coming together more) America is dying. Being sold off piece by piece. The people at the front of the sale are mainly flag waving pro-capitalists who get the heebie-jeebies whenever they hear a 'ism' that doesn't start with 'capital'. People more concerned abut ideologies than reality.

The reason why they chose India is because they speak English.

In order to provide 'good-adequate' customer service one needs to do more than "speak" a language. They have to comprehend it. That's the problem. A lack of comprehension...I'm trying to explain my problem and they're stuck because the answers aren't on the script.

[Syron]

No, its an argument FOR capitalism. Move your capital someplace else, ie switch services, write letters, call the local office and chew their ass. Companies do things in certain ways because there is a dollar incentive. If the dollars go away, they change.

Indeed. If a company thinks that you will use a service even if it is done through poor (but cheaper) customer service then it will continue to do so. If you withdraw your capital the company will act. The problem is that there is a general unwillingness to complain.

There are plenty of businesses where this is the case. I worked in a bar and apart from 2 of them, the bouncers were generally not experienced non-british/non-native speakers. They were the most useless doormen because of it, communication is paramount in that sort of situation.

Sufficed to say they were gotten rid of when our boss threatened to go with another company.

[morteduzionism]

Indeed. If a company thinks that you will use a service even if it is done through poor (but cheaper) customer service then it will continue to do so. If you withdraw your capital the company will act. The problem is that there is a general unwillingness to complain.

I agree with this.

However, this really only works when the customer has an option. I don't know how it is in your area but how many phone companies can you choose from?

Sure, people can go to a different bar. There're plenty of bars. But how many cell phone companies? Computer manufacturers? Internet providers? Fast food companies? I used McD's as an example but don't think it's limited to McD's. Do not thin it's limited to one store either...it's all of them!(the majority...nearly every store I go into)

And that's still only part of my point. The other part is: does this happen in NON ENGLISH speaking countries? Are French/Spanish customers frequently getting non Native French/Spanish speaking people as customer service agents? Well I guess it's not the same really...the French have ample poor French speaking people in Africa, Haiti, etc and the Spanish can tap Mexico/Central America(although they speak different Spanish...it's close enough)

What about Hindi speaking customers? Do they call customer service and get a call center in Dubuque, IA? I just don't think that's happening. Furthermore, I don't think other countries would do something like that. Can you see an Arabic speaking country hiring non-native-Arabic speaking customer service agents?

Edit: Essentially I'm suggesting that English speaking capitalists love money more than they love their countries. I think that's wrong.

[GrnEyedDvl]

Move capital someplace else? Where? You mean start getting phone/net service from one of these little rinky dink start-up companies? An unestablished company with NO track record for reliability?

Well theres a good attitude, I hate my current company, so I am not willing to take a risk with a new one. Why would your old company change then, if there is no risk of losing you?

As one of those "rinky dink startup companies" myself (granted, in another field), I am glad not everyone thinks like you otherwise there would be no place for small business, which actually drives more of the economy than "big business" does.

EVERY person I know that has Comcast phone service ABSOLUTELY HATES IT! The majority of them only get it because it's cheaper.

Well there's evidence, everyone you know. Anecdotal evidence aside, if a majority of their customers felt that way, that company would cease to exist.

Furthermore, what guarantee is there that this smaller company wont, in effort to save customers money, outsource it's customer service call centers? The answer: no guarantee whatsoever.

Maybe you never heard the old saying about the only certainties in life are death and taxes? Who do you want this garuntee from??

Life is full of risk, and whats the risk if you take a chance with a smaller company? You might miss an email or a phone call? Life threatening.

Write letters/complain? Have done both more than once. I even specifically ask for NATIVE english speaking people if/when I do call customer service.

Again, if enough people do that, they will change. If everyone that raised hell on internet forums and with their friends, also raised hell with the companies, they might listen.

But for some services (i.e. phone/net) the choices are limited. Also, sometimes you get what you pay for. I'm not interested in being a Beta tester for a new phone company.

There is another choice here, but since your opinion of startups isnt that great I doubt you will be receptive to it.

If you think there are enough people like you, then startup a "rinky dink" company. I can point you to a company thats doing well here in Denver because of someone who felt like you, but was willing to take the risk. I use them, no problems at all.

http://libertybelltelecom.com/

They do that regardless of whether their is a law or not. Their whole raison d'etre is to make money.

Of course thats their purpose, thats why you start a company, to make money. Do some companies break laws? Of course they do, but dont turn that into a blanket statement.

My response to this is somewhat off topic...but this wouldn't be necessary if there was a) a such thing as American Culture and b) respect/consideration for Americans by Americans.

So the guy that moves here from wherever (legally), becomes a citizen, and starts his own business isnt an American? I hate to disagree. THAT is the culture of America. The melting pot.

I mean, I need a translator to order food at McDonalds!? I don't know if you eat at McD's but nearly EVERY McD's in this area(Washington, DC) is staffed by NON ENGLISH speaking people! From the manager to the custodian more often than not there's not one single NATIVE English employee.

Thats a different subject, as a LOT of restaurant workers are illegals. Thats an entirely different subject than phone calls being outsourced overseas.

Who's to blame(if there is any) for this? McDonalds, Corp? The local manager? The general apathy of Americans towards things American? The lack of an English speaking American culture? Who? What?

Want the truth? You are, and so am I, and everyone else that tolerates it. Stop eating out, and eat at home. Hit em in the pocketbook. There are several places I absolutely will not spend money at, McDs is one, Walmart is another. But one person cant do it alone.

The reason I said is this an argument against capitalism is that...pro-capitalist(companies/citizens) only care about oportunity/money. They don't care about the annual summer festival in Small Neighborhood, USA. People are so terrified of any idea besides capitalism that they automatically reject anything not capitalism. The problem, as I see it, is that this way of thinking is destroying America. While other countries are getting stronger(coming together more) America is dying. Being sold off piece by piece. The people at the front of the sale are mainly flag waving pro-capitalists who get the heebie-jeebies whenever they hear a 'ism' that doesn't start with 'capital'. People more concerned abut ideologies than reality.

I have given you my solutions, whats yours? If you dont like capitalism what do you suggest?

I guess the question is, what are YOU going to do to change things? I have taken my steps, others have taken theirs, but unless you are willing to do something as small as take a chance with a "rinky dink startup" or even take a big step and form your own company, the problem will persist.

You want a lawmaker to fix it for you? Considering how many things they regularly screw up, parties on both sides, that probably wouldnt work. And even if it did it would mess with economies in other parts of the world, and after all thats how WW2 started with the Japanese. Over steel imports.

I guess the bottom line is that change takes longer than we would like, but in the end you are either part of the problem, or part of the solution.

[chilon]

Move capital someplace else? Where? You mean start getting phone/net service from one of these little rinky dink start-up companies? An unestablished company with NO track record for reliability? EVERY person I know that has Comcast phone service ABSOLUTELY HATES IT! The majority of them only get it because it's cheaper.

QFMT.

When I moved to the East Bay Area from Los Angeles I *only* have the choice of Comcast cable for internet (or I guess DSL but that is 3-5 times slower).

I find it funny because people always get "capitalism" confused with corporate mercantilism.

Cable companies have state sanctioned local monopolies. When I lived in LA I was very happy with Charter/Time Warner service and would have chosen to continue getting broadband with them when I moved to the Bay Area but I did not have that option due to government sanctioned local monopolies.

Comcast is the company with the absolute worst customer service I have ever come across in 3 decades of life. But since entire cities *have* to pay money to Comcast they stay in business. In one apartment I had to wait on 3 seperate days for 8 hours for the installation man to arrive as they never kept their alleged appointments.

[Sebdeas]

Instead of ranting about my hatred for Verizons' use of Indians and other non-English speaking people to staff 99% of its' call-centers I'd like to ask a question:

The reason why they chose India is because they speak English.

And the reason why they have to outsource labour is because people want the best products for the lowest price.
It's just a natural side effect of the need for cheap products.

[Finn]

Dell does the same thing with its tech support, customer service etc.. In my experience some were fine and could be easily understood, whereas other's were very difficult to understand, but at least they were polite, which I can't say about all the English speaking customer service reps I have dealt with.

[Thanatos]

I had trouble with my Epson Stylus printer, and had to call tech support.

Got an Indian dude. HIRE AN AMERICAN, DARN IT!!!

[Richard]

What's really weird is that occasionally instead of an Indian I'll get a New Zealander, which actually leads me to believe that (at least part of) my ISP's callcentre is based here in NZ, but still employs mainly Indians (or Indian NZers at least)!

[morteduzionism]

What's really weird is that occasionally instead of an Indian I'll get a New Zealander, which actually leads me to believe that (at least part of) my ISP's callcentre is based here in NZ, but still employs mainly Indians (or Indian NZers at least)!

I once made a real stink about getting a "native" english speaker with Verizon...eventually I got transferred to someone...I honestly want to say they were in New Zealand...or maybe it was Australia...It could've been England but for some reason New Zealand sounds right to me...

Best/worst part about it is that it took @30mins to get to the person and he was able to answer my questions and help me in less than 1 minute...I spent another minute thanking him...then spent another hour cursing Verizon for making me wait 30mins to speak to someone who was able to solve the problem in a few seconds...

(bleep)ing bastids!