Belgae Unit Roster

**cherryfunk** · January 25, 2008, 12:58 PM

Here's a stab at a unit roster for the Belgae, with appropriate images where I could find them. Note that there could be many more units than this (Brigantes, Suessiones, Bellovaci, etc.) but this feels like a fairly representative sample to me and keeps the overall number of units within a reasonable range.

Many of these units are similar to the units in the Arverni roster. The Belgians were noted to be particularly fierce, and somewhat less developed than other Celts. They also lived in rougher, less developed terrain, featuring many deep forests and marshes. So in terms of unit abilities, we might make them hardier, faster, better ambushers, but with less armor than the corresponding Arverni units.

The 'rating' is a number between 1 and 5 that gives a rough idea of the units combat ability, morale, etc., with '1' being a levy unit and '5' an elite unit.

Belgic Slingers
[rating=2; sling, dagger, no armor]

Slingers were common among the Belgae, so this is their main missile unit. Like most Belgae, they are good ambushers and have excellent stamina. Good morale and fast moving, but poor discipline. Can swim. These men would wear simple clothing with muted colors.

Belgic Foresters (Archers)
[rating=3; bow, short sword, no armor]

Similar to Gallic Foresters: a powerful but expensive unit. The bow was not a common weapon. We might consider removing the 'fire arrow' ability. Almost like 'special forces,' these men are hunters and thus are excellent ambushers and can hide anywhere. Would wear nicer clothing than the slingers, with some good dyed cloth, fine cloaks, etc., but colors would be muted to aid in ambushing.

Belgic Raiders (Round Shield Skirmishers)
[rating=2; javelin, dagger, small shield, no armor]

A general levy unit. Good skirmishers but poor in hand-to-hand combat. Fast moving, great stamina, excellent ambushers. Can swim.

Alternate names: Belgic Light Skirmishers/Belgic Ambushers/Belgic Round Shield Skirmishers

Belgic Skirmishers (Long Shield Skirmishers)
[rating=3; javelin, spear, medium shield, no armor]

A levy of tougher/wealthier/older men than the Raiders, with better shields and defensive skill, can fight hand-to-hand as good light infantry, but don’t form tight formations. Fast moving, good stamina, good ambushers.
Alternate name: Belgic Medium Skirmishers / Belgic Long Shield Skirmishers

Belgic Light Spearmen
[rating=3; javelins, spear, large shield, no armor]

Similar skill and combat ability as the Longshield Skirmishers, but these men train to fight in close formation and have larger shields. Can form shieldwall. Bonus fighting cavalry. Good defensive troops, but their lack of armor is a serious liability. Have javelins for some limited ranged capability, but are not expert javelin men, so the missile attack is fairly low (not nearly as powerful as Roman pila, for example).

Belgic Heavy Spearmen
[rating=4; spear, armor (chain?), large shield, helmet]

Upper-class, wealthy warriors and their bodyguards, a very tough force of heavy spearmen. Good skill, excellent armor, great morale. Bonus fighting cavalry. These guys are horse-slayers. Can form shieldwall. Fewer men per unit than regular infantry.

Belgic Swordsmen
[rating=3; javelins, sword, medium shield, bare-chested]

A levy of swordsmen, typically men with prior combat experience. They form loose formations to allow them to swing their swords. Powerful charge, good hand-to-hand ability. Uses warcry. Note that they have a few javelins for a limited ranged ability, but these are much less effective than skirmisher javelins or Roman pila.

Belgic Armored Swordsmen
[rating=4; javelins, sword, chainmail tunic (or studded leather?), medium shield, helmet]

Tough veteran swordsmen, excellent hand-to-hand warriors. Unable to form tight formations due to their long swords. Use warcry. Fewer men than regular units.

Belgic Champions
[rating=5; sword, chainmail tunic, large shield, helmet]

The very best Belgic footsoldiers, veteran warriors with excellent arms and armor. Possibly wielding two-handed swords? Fewer men than regular units.

Belgic Light Cavalry
[rating=3; javelins, spear, small shield, no armor]

Similar to Scythian light cavalry -- they throw two javelins then attack with a spear. Good morale, good ambushers, mediocre light cavalry, very vulnerable to spearmen or heavy cavalry. The Belgae were not noted as horsemen, so this should be a sub-par light cavalry unit (or, alternatively, have the same skill level but cost more than similar units for the other Celtic factions).

Belgic Nobles(Noble Cavalry)
[rating=5; javelins, spear, medium shield, chainmail]

Similar to Arverni Nobles, but with less armor and generally less 'wealthy' looking.

Light Chariots
[rating=3; javelins, spear, small shield, no armor]

Light, 2-man chariots, very little armor. Meant for scouting and skirmishing. Throw javelins, and can keep an ample supply of them. A good ranged unit.

Heavy Chariots
[rating=4; javelins, spear, larger shield, some armor]

2-man chariots, but more heavily armored than the light chariots. Able to close with the enemy and fight hand to hand.

Nervii Swordsmen
[rating=4; javelins, sword, large shield, possibly some armor]

The Nervii were reputed to be the fiercest of the Belgic tribes, and one of the largest. Known as the 'Spartans of the Belgae'. They very nearly defeated Caesar's legions at the battle of the Sambre and were ferocious close-combat warriors.

Morini Skirmishers
[rating=4; javelin, dagger, small shield, no armor]

The Morini were a Belgic tribe that dwelt in dense forests and swamps and gave Caesar quite a bit of trouble. These men would be excellent ambushers and very effective skirmishers.

Remi Light Horsemen
[rating=3; javelins, spear, small shield, no armor]

The Remi were noted as excellent horsemen. They fight as light cavalry, throwing javelins and then closing with a spear. They are notably better than the 'Belgic Light Cavalry' unit.

Treverii Medium Horsemen
[rating=4; javelins, sword, medium shield, chain and helmet]

The Treverii were a Belgic tribe that bordered Germany, located near the Rhine. They had ties with the Germans. Caesar notes that the Treverii were the best horsemen in all of Gaul. This is a tough medium cavalry unit, skilled in hand-to-hand combat. Since the Belgae in general lacked cavalry, I suggest this be the only medium cavalry unit available to them, and have a restricted AOR.

Britonic/British Spearmen
[rating=3; javelins, spear, large shield, no armor]

Similar to Belgic Light Spearmen, these are British Celts trained to fight in close formation. Can form shieldwall. Bonus fighting cavalry. Good defensive troops. Likely covered in woad like other Britonic/British units. Only available in Britain and Ireland.

Britonic/British Skirmishers
[rating=3; javelin, spear, medium shield, no armor]

Similar to Belgic Skirmishers.

Britonic/British Slingers
[rating=4; sling, dagger, small shield]

An elite slinger unit, used extensively by the Britons for defense of their elaborate forts. In quality, similar to Balearic slingers. The best Celtic slinger unit.

Caledonian Raiders (Round Shield Skirmishers)
[rating=3; javelin, dagger, small shield, no armor]

Excellent light skirmishers from Caledonia. Wild and ferocious warriors.

**cherryfunk** · January 25, 2008, 01:07 PM

tone, that's 21 units altogether. Let me know if that's too much, we can probably remove a couple if we have to. The tricky bit is that since the Belgae spill over into Britain, but only occupy a small part of it, we do need several British units for that AOR.

**swhunter** · January 25, 2008, 03:56 PM

Seems like we can use the other units from the Arverni to full this list also. just change the color of shields and clothing and poof! A unit.

That two hand sword is kinda cool few very units maybe 50 ?

**Mulattothrasher** · January 25, 2008, 10:34 PM

I will post my opinions on this soon. Everything looks great regardless!

Needless to say, I'm excited about another Celtic faction...can't have too many !

j/k

**ETAIPOS** · January 26, 2008, 09:22 AM

the guy with 5141 number (champion) is more suited to central europe (Boii tribes) because of his helmet type.

**cherryfunk** · January 26, 2008, 09:55 AM

Good point Etaipos, although I was focusing more on the shield, which seems unusual for Celts and reminds me a bit of the small square Pictish/Caledonian shield. Any idea where that shield was used?

**rory o'kane** · January 26, 2008, 12:23 PM

i know some roman cavalry units ahd them - celtic inspiration perhaps? a Gallic ala could have them - i think hexagonal shields might be good for elite cavalry and/or infantry (the champions, perhaps?).

**Mulattothrasher** · January 26, 2008, 01:41 PM

***Overall, my take on the units is to show that they were a bit more rugid/"barbaric" and less "civilized" than the Arverni. However, they'd be more "civilized" than the Cimbri. Their proximity and association with Germany means metal weapons and armor would be rather rare compared to the Arverni in Gaul. Therefore, among the Belgae, swords would be highly coveted and really only nobility/champions/heavy swordsmen units would/should have swords.

Metal for the common man would be more efficiently forged into "axes for the masses" since an axehead takes much less metal than a sword to produce and a chief can equip a greater number of younger or less wealthy warriors with axes than he could spending money for a couple swords and a single suit of chainmail.

I think they'd have more light and medium infantry as well.

Basically, the Belgae units should be in the middle of Arverni and Cimbri. They'd have less swords and chainmail units than the Arverni, but, would still have more than the Cimbri due to availability of metal (if y'all follow what I am getting at).***

Belgic Slingers
[rating=2; sling, dagger, no armor]

Slingers were common among the Belgae, so this is their main missile unit. Like most Belgae, they are good ambushers and have excellent stamina. Good morale and fast moving, but poor discipline. Can swim. These men would wear simple clothing with muted colors.
(The Arverni slinger could do for this unit. Keep the hair long, maybe take the shield away, and give this unit a small cloak/cape of animal skin if thats possible. Perhaps have the pants in wide vertical stripes of white and medium/dark blue instead of checkered to give it a Germanic look, similar to the stripes of the Arverni Longshield skirmisher shirts, but the stripes should run up and down, not left to right).

Belgic Foresters (Archers)
[rating=3; bow, short sword, no armor]

Similar to Gallic Foresters: a powerful but expensive unit. The bow was not a common weapon. We might consider removing the 'fire arrow' ability. Almost like 'special forces,' these men are hunters and thus are excellent ambushers and can hide anywhere. Would wear nicer clothing than the slingers, with some good dyed cloth, fine cloaks, etc., but colors would be muted to aid in ambushing.
(I was thinking the Gallic Archer unit with a different trouser pattern and color scheme? Maybe light brown hair and some woad markings on their faces or arms?)

Belgic Raiders (Round Shield Skirmishers)
[rating=2; javelin, dagger, small shield, no armor]
&
Morini Skirmishers
[rating=4; javelin, dagger, small shield, no armor]

The Morini were a Belgic tribe that dwelt in dense forests and swamps and gave Caesar quite a bit of trouble. These men would be excellent ambushers and very effective skirmishers.
A general levy unit. Good skirmishers but poor in hand-to-hand combat. Fast moving, great stamina, excellent ambushers. Can swim.
(Since the Morini were adept at dealing with life in the swamps, then they'd be excellent ambushers, perhaps of an elite light skirmisher or a highly experienced skilled medium type (minus armor). Pitched battles would most likely be less common in swamps so ambushing would be prevalent. I love the Belgic Ambusher name, but could it be changed to Morini Ambusher? The look could stay the same as the picture below. No shield to enhance "ambushing ability." This could free up a unit slot also.)

Belgic Skirmishers (Long Shield Skirmishers)
[rating=3; javelin, spear, medium shield, no armor]

A levy of tougher/wealthier/older men than the Raiders, with better shields and defensive skill, can fight hand-to-hand as good light infantry, but don’t form tight formations. Fast moving, good stamina, good ambushers.
Alternate name: Belgic Medium Skirmishers / Belgic Long Shield Skirmishers
(Assuming we agree with the idea of combining the two units types above, then this skirmisher unit could be one with a shield. I think the Arverni Light skirmisher would do the best because of the smaller round shield. Maybe change the hair color to light brown or blonde, keep the beard as well, and make the pants a green on dark green. Also, is it possible to add a fur cape/cloak Tone?).

Belgic Light Spearmen
[rating=3; javelins, spear, large shield, no armor]

Similar skill and combat ability as the Longshield Skirmishers, but these men train to fight in close formation and have larger shields. Can form shieldwall. Bonus fighting cavalry. Good defensive troops, but their lack of armor is a serious liability. Have javelins for some limited ranged capability, but are not expert javelin men, so the missile attack is fairly low (not nearly as powerful as Roman pila, for example).
(This guy kneeling down could represent this unit, minus the sword of course. The Arverni Light spearmen has a short sword/dirk of some kind for melee. Is it possible for the Belgic unit have a club instead?)

Belgic Heavy Spearmen
[rating=4; spear, armor (chain?), large shield, helmet]

Upper-class, wealthy warriors and their bodyguards, a very tough force of heavy spearmen. Good skill, excellent armor, great morale. Bonus fighting cavalry. These guys are horse-slayers. Can form shieldwall. Fewer men per unit than regular infantry.
(These two are a good representation me thinks. In the top pic the shield he has is a bit small, but, we can keep it that way because Celts did use small shields so they'd have less weight on them during battle. Leather armor could be added if we wanted. Either one seems fitting for a heavy spearmen unit).

***This is a unit that I think should be added***

Belgic Axemen
[rating=3; axe, medium shield, no armor]
Medium infantry wielding the axe. Good shock troops and next to spearmen good anti cavalry. Powerful charge, good hand-to-hand ability. Uses warcry.
(Spear could be optional or while in defense mode, then if in melee they use their axes. An axe unit is needed for the Belgae as a medium infantry and shock unit. I think they should be better warriors, though not on par with higher end elite warriors.

Belgic Swordsmen
[rating=3; javelins, sword, medium shield, bare-chested]

A levy of swordsmen, typically men with prior combat experience. They form loose formations to allow them to swing their swords. Powerful charge, good hand-to-hand ability. Uses warcry. Note that they have a few javelins for a limited ranged ability, but these are much less effective than skirmisher javelins or Roman pila.
(This could represent the Belgic swordsmen unit. They would not be levy units in this case, but would be seasoned warriors and probably a bit wealthy and successful in battle. Add some leather armor to that guy if we wanted (like whats on the Arverni elite skirmisher), add a golden torc around his neck, perhaps a matching bracelet, and that should do it.).

Belgic Armored Swordsmen
[rating=4; javelins, sword, chainmail tunic (or studded leather?), medium shield, helmet]
Tough veteran swordsmen, excellent hand-to-hand warriors. Unable to form tight formations due to their long swords. Use warcry. Fewer men than regular units.
&

Belgic Champions
[rating=5; sword, chainmail tunic, large shield, helmet]
The very best Belgic footsoldiers, veteran warriors with excellent arms and armor. Possibly wielding two-handed swords? Fewer men than regular units.
(IMHO these two units could probably be one and the same more than being two distinct units. This assumes anyone with armor would be wealthy and or successful and likely a warrior of great renown or champion. Those that were not on a champion's level of fame would be with the Belgic swordsmen unit in the above entry.

With the fierceness of the Belgae, their faction could have two champion/elite units. I was thinking a "generic" Belgic Champion unit with a sword and large shield (pic #5149 or 5150 w/o axe), but also an elite Bellovaci axemen unit with a smaller round shield (pic #5151 w/o sword). We all know about the Nervii warriors, but the Bellovaci were the most powerful and populous tribe. They could muster 100,000 troops, and within this number would be 60,000 picked men, which denotes some kind of elite and seasoned warriors. They claimed overall direction and planning of the resistance against Caesar.

These two guys would do for overall concept of the axe and sword champions.

Belgic Light Cavalry
[rating=3; javelins, spear, small shield, no armor]

Similar to Scythian light cavalry -- they throw two javelins then attack with a spear. Good morale, good ambushers, mediocre light cavalry, very vulnerable to spearmen or heavy cavalry. The Belgae were not noted as horsemen, so this should be a sub-par light cavalry unit (or, alternatively, have the same skill level but cost more than similar units for the other Celtic factions).
(I really like this depiction of a common light cavalryman. Maybe add a little design or something simple on the shield to spice it up a bit. Oh, and change or delete the purple/gold covering that hes sitting on).

Belgic Nobles(Noble Cavalry)
[rating=5; javelins, spear, medium shield, chainmail]

Similar to Arverni Nobles, but with less armor and generally less 'wealthy' looking.
(I agree with the less wealthy look.).

The cavalryman these pictures could all do for a noble cavalryman, though they all have the usual amount of chainmail on them. Personally, I'm partial to the smaller pic, with the guy and the white shield. His gear and overall look just seems different from Celtic noble/heavy cavalry in any mod I've seen

Light Chariots
[rating=3; javelins, spear, small shield, no armor]
Light, 2-man chariots, very little armor. Meant for scouting and skirmishing. Throw javelins, and can keep an ample supply of them. A good ranged unit.
Heavy Chariots
[rating=4; javelins, spear, larger shield, some armor]

2-man chariots, but more heavily armored than the light chariots. Able to close with the enemy and fight hand to hand.
(I know the Arverni have a chariot unit that I believe will be taken out of their roster. Not sure if that one is similar to this one or not, but, one could be light while the other heavy).

Nervii Swordsmen
[rating=4; javelins, sword, large shield, possibly some armor]

The Nervii were reputed to be the fiercest of the Belgic tribes, and one of the largest. Known as the 'Spartans of the Belgae'. They very nearly defeated Caesar's legions at the battle of the Sambre and were ferocious close-combat warriors.
(Caesar wrote that the Nervii appeared and crossed a river with such speed that his troops could not take the covers off their shields, put on their helmets, nor form up into their regiments in time before the entire force was upon them. IMHO, this sounds action by a light infantry force. The Nervii could be an elite light infantry with no body armor for speed and stealth that Caesar notes them for, but with strong offensive ability. A helmet and a shield could be their only protection which would allow them to move quickly along with the javelins/darts to throw. Also, the Nervii were located closest to the Germanic tribes, who were notorious spear users due to their lack of access to metals. Maybe this unit could have a spear instead of a sword due to this and Germanic influence?).

The Nervi warrior could look like this guy along with his lighter equipment for surprise and speed.

Remi Light Horsemen
[rating=3; javelins, spear, small shield, no armor]

The Remi were noted as excellent horsemen. They fight as light cavalry, throwing javelins and then closing with a spear. They are notably better than the 'Belgic Light Cavalry' unit.
***(IMHO these should be units that only Romans could recruit if they take over the continental Belgae. Reason being is the Remi were so pro-Roman that they and the Aedui were the only friends that Caesar found in Gaul. I say change the Remi light cavalry to any other Belgic tribe and keep the Remi as Roman lapdogs, I mean allied troops . The 6.3 Beta has the Aedui already, and maybe the name can be changed around Belgium to the Remi to reflect their pro-Roman stance).
(The Arverni light cavalry would be good for these guys. Change the hair to blond, swap out the shield pattern to anything else (maybe something with Celtic horse symbol)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uffington_White_Horse

Treverii Medium Horsemen
[rating=4; javelins, sword, medium shield, chain and helmet]

The Treverii were a Belgic tribe that bordered Germany, located near the Rhine. They had ties with the Germans. Caesar notes that the Treverii were the best horsemen in all of Gaul. This is a tough medium cavalry unit, skilled in hand-to-hand combat. Since the Belgae in general lacked cavalry, I suggest this be the only medium cavalry unit available to them, and have a restricted AOR.
(I agree with the lack of cavalry aspect. Other than the brown color scheme that we all just love to death, this guy could do. If we wanted, he could be without a helmet, or, a simple leather cap).

This helmet could replace the one in the picture if need be...

Britonic/British Spearmen
[rating=3; javelins, spear, large shield, no armor]
Similar to Belgic Light Spearmen, these are British Celts trained to fight in close formation. Can form shieldwall. Bonus fighting cavalry. Good defensive troops. Likely covered in woad like other Britonic/British units. Only available in Britain and Ireland.
(I was thinking that this guy could represent this unit, minus the sword, or change it to a short sword or dirk or something like that, and maybe a more Briton style shield).

Britonic/British Skirmishers
[rating=3; javelin, spear, medium shield, no armor]
Similar to Belgic Skirmishers.
(The Arverni longshield skirmisher (the old guys) could do. The stripes on the shirt can be made a bit thinner to make them look different, and these guys could have a light beard and "young" hair so they do not look old and maybe a moustache like the Arverni archers have).

Britonic/British Slingers
[rating=4; sling, dagger, small shield]

An elite slinger unit, used extensively by the Britons for defense of their elaborate forts. In quality, similar to Balearic slingers. The best Celtic slinger unit.
(Just to save on the models/slots/etc/...this could be a redo of the Arverni slinger. These guys cold be covered in woad (similar to the Pictones swordsmen) and have a tartan shirt with sleeves to set them apart).

Caledonian Raiders (Round Shield Skirmishers)
[rating=3; javelin, dagger, small shield, no armor]
Excellent light skirmishers from Caledonia. Wild and ferocious warriors.
(I assume this is the guy that is posted elsewhere in the thread?)

**tone** · January 26, 2008, 01:04 PM

Looking good. What about the Belgae Milnhae or however they are spelt? Where do they fit in? I think we'll need to reach some sort of compromise on the new units somewhere.....and how we can re-use the existing ones.

About Caledonians, I'd love to see this guy...

**swhunter** · January 26, 2008, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by tone

Looking good. What about the Belgae Milnhae or however they are spelt? Where do they fit in? I think we'll need to reach some sort of compromise on the new units somewhere.....and how we can re-use the existing ones.

About Caledonians, I'd love to see this guy...

Yes Tone i have that pic also.

**tone** · January 26, 2008, 01:52 PM

All looking good. If we can lock down helmets types, armour, shields and weapons for each of these new units over the next week or so it'll make everything go much more smoothly.

Ideally if we can have some sort of concept pics, like "this shield with this helmet" sort of thing - like Keravnos and Etaipos have done for the Greeks - the whole process will be much quicker.

**Mulattothrasher** · January 26, 2008, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by tone

All looking good. If we can lock down helmets types, armour, shields and weapons for each of these new units over the next week or so it'll make everything go much more smoothly.

Ideally if we can have some sort of concept pics, like "this shield with this helmet" sort of thing - like Keravnos and Etaipos have done for the Greeks - the whole process will be much quicker.

No problem

**cherryfunk** · January 27, 2008, 09:22 AM

What about the Belgae Milnhae or however they are spelt?

I think they're just Belgae swordsmen, so we have the same unit (just a different name).

http://www.europabarbarorum.com/fact...rni_units.html

About Caledonians, I'd love to see this guy...

Looks like a light infantry (javelin/sword combination). We could use him instead of the Caledonian skirmisher, this guy should have a bit more kick (better hand to hand ability).

Mulatto:

Basically, the Belgae units should be in the middle of Arverni and Cimbri. They'd have less swords and chainmail units than the Arverni, but, would still have more than the Cimbri due to availability of metal

I agree.

I love the Belgic Ambusher name, but could it be changed to Morini Ambusher?

Either would work, but the Morini would have a more limited AOR, so the more generic Belgic Ambusher might be better? This would then become the unarmored skirmisher for the faction, but due to the Belgic expertise with ambushing, it would actually be a pretty good unit -- as long as it isn't forced to fight armored infantry or cavalry. Since this faction will be light on armored infantry, it makes sense that its skirmishers be a cut above.

An axe unit is needed for the Belgae as a medium infantry and shock unit. I think they should be better warriors, though not on par with higher end elite warriors.

I agree; although we could make the Nervii a spear/axe unit and save a slot.

IMHO these two units could probably be one and the same more than being two distinct units. This assumes anyone with armor would be wealthy and or successful and likely a warrior of great renown or champion. Those that were not on a champion's level of fame would be with the Belgic swordsmen unit in the above entry.

This makes sense; so the faction has no 'low end' sword unit, but rather a medium sword unit (unarmored, but good shield and good stats) and the elite Champion unit.

Caesar wrote that the Nervii appeared and crossed a river with such speed that his troops could not take the covers off their shields, put on their helmets, nor form up into their regiments in time before the entire force was upon them. IMHO, this sounds action by a light infantry force. The Nervii could be an elite light infantry with no body armor for speed and stealth that Caesar notes them for, but with strong offensive ability. A helmet and a shield could be their only protection which would allow them to move quickly along with the javelins/darts to throw. Also, the Nervii were located closest to the Germanic tribes, who were notorious spear users due to their lack of access to metals. Maybe this unit could have a spear instead of a sword due to this and Germanic influence?

This makes sense, although keep in mind that the Nervii did fight toe-to-toe with Roman heavy infantry without breaking, indeed almost overwhelming them. This suggests that they at the least had excellent large shields, and possibly some armor (maybe chest protectors, maybe leather). So rather than an elite light infantry, I'd call them medium infantry with unusual speed and offensive ability.

IMHO these should be units that only Romans could recruit if they take over the continental Belgae. Reason being is the Remi were so pro-Roman that they and the Aedui were the only friends that Caesar found in Gaul.

I disagree -- the Remi joined the Belgic insurrection until Caesar showed up on their doorstep with six legions. This suggests they would have been willing to fight with anyone if the circumstances dictated. However, maybe having 2 tribe-specific cavalry units is too much for the faction, and a generic 'Belgic Medium Cavalry' would be better? Or maybe no medium cavalry at all?

**Mulattothrasher** · January 27, 2008, 12:44 PM

Ah, I forget about the AOR. Yes, the ambusher should be a cut above due to what you said.

And with the Nervii, a spear/axe combination and as medium infantry would due as well.

With the Remi, I still don't know. Honestly, its not a biggie either way though

. Its just from what I recall, they peacefully allied with Caesar only because he arrived super quick and caught them off guard, correct? What did the do militarily to warrant a cavalry unit is what I am asking :hmmm:

I have not read Gallic Wars in a few years, and maybe I should again

**cherryfunk** · January 27, 2008, 02:04 PM

Ah, I forget about the AOR.

The concept is that the tribe-specific units, like the Remi horse or the Nervii infantry, would only be available in a few regions clustered around their historical homeland -- similar to the unique city hoplite units of the Greek factions. While the 'generic' faction units, like the Gallic Skirmishers or Belgic Slingers, would be available throughout the entire 'Celtic' AOR (which would stretch from Iberia to the Balkans, if not further).

What did the do militarily to warrant a cavalry unit is what I am askin

I've read in a few places that they were noted for their cavalry, although I don't think Caesar mentions this in his commentaries. For example from Wikipedia:

They were surrounded on all sides by friendly Belgic states, and their tribal capital was at Durocortum (Reims, France) the second largest "oppidum" of Gaul, on the Vesle. Allied with the Germanic tribes of the east, they repeatedly engaged in warfare against the Parisii and the Senones. They were renowned for their horses and cavalry. The Remi, under Iccius and Andecombogius, allied themselves with Julius Caesar and remained loyal to him throughout the entire Gallic Wars, the most pro-Roman of all the peoples of Gaul.

A late legend accounts that Remus, the brother of Romulus, founded the city of Reims after having fled the Latium, nowaday north of France, as well as originated the Remi people.

Caesar does note the excellent cavalry of the Treveri, writing:

He left what seemed a sufficient number of soldiers for that design; he himself proceeds into the territories of the
Treviri with four legions without baggage, and 800 horse, because they neither came to the general diets [of Gaul], nor obeyed his commands, and were
moreover, said to be tampering with the Germans beyond the Rhine.

"caes.gal.5.3": [5.3] This state is by far the most powerful of all Gaul in cavalry, and has great forces of infantry, and as we have remarked above,
borders on the Rhine.

http://digilander.libero.it/jackdani...ico/book_5.htm

**Mulattothrasher** · January 27, 2008, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by cherryfunk

The concept is that the tribe-specific units, like the Remi horse or the Nervii infantry, would only be available in a few regions clustered around their historical homeland -- similar to the unique city hoplite units of the Greek factions. While the 'generic' faction units, like the Gallic Skirmishers or Belgic Slingers, would be available throughout the entire 'Celtic' AOR (which would stretch from Iberia to the Balkans, if not further).

I've read in a few places that they were noted for their cavalry, although I don't think Caesar mentions this in his commentaries. For example from Wikipedia:

Caesar does note the excellent cavalry of the Treveri, writing:

I gotcha, I though it all was in Gallic Wars or something. Remi will do fine

I knew about the Treveri cavalry being top notch, just hadn't read much on the Remi is all.

With the Briton units I've not started looking for good representations of them yet.

Also, the Caledonian guy that everyone keeps posting would be an excellent looking unit, maybe a good light infantry or medium infantry force recruit able in Britain only? :hmmm:

**cherryfunk** · February 08, 2008, 11:47 AM

tone, here's a revised roster based on Mulatto's comments. I've removed the Morini skirmisher, the armored swordsmen, and the Remi cavalry, to consolidate a bit. Added the Belgae Axemen.

We also want to add the clubmen levy unit that we gave the Arverni.

Also, we might consider splitting the Caledonians into 2 units, a light inf. and a skirmisher. But given that this is such a remote area, that might be overkill.

Belgic Slingers
[rating=2; sling, dagger, no armor]

Slingers were common among the Belgae, so this is their main missile unit. Like most Belgae, they are good ambushers and have excellent stamina. Good morale and fast moving, but poor discipline. Can swim. These men would wear simple clothing with muted colors.

Note: The Arverni slinger could do for this unit. Keep the hair long, maybe take the shield away, and give this unit a small cloak/cape of animal skin if thats possible. Perhaps have the pants in wide vertical stripes of white and medium/dark blue instead of checkered to give it a Germanic look, similar to the stripes of the Arverni Longshield skirmisher shirts, but the stripes should run up and down, not left to right.

Belgic Foresters (Archers)
[rating=3; bow, short sword, no armor]

Similar to Gallic Foresters: a powerful but expensive unit. The bow was not a common weapon. We might consider removing the 'fire arrow' ability. Almost like 'special forces,' these men are hunters and thus are excellent ambushers and can hide anywhere. Would wear nicer clothing than the slingers, with some good dyed cloth, fine cloaks, etc., but colors would be muted to aid in ambushing.

Note: Possibly the Gallic Archer unit with a different trouser pattern and color scheme? Maybe light brown hair and some woad markings on their faces or arms?

Belgic Raiders (Round Shield Skirmishers)
[rating=2; javelin, dagger, small shield, no armor]

A general levy unit. Good skirmishers but poor in hand-to-hand combat. Fast moving, great stamina, excellent ambushers. Can swim.

Alternate names: Belgic Light Skirmishers/Belgic Ambushers/Belgic Round Shield Skirmishers