Total unrealistic battle fights

[MunichRules]

So yesterday i had to defend Milan as Sicilly against a full stack army of Venetian soldiers: 4 peasant units, 5 town militia, 3 speer militia, 2 sergeants speerman, 5 archer units and one heavy cavalry. I was defending the city with 3 mercenary speerman, 2 militia pavese one heavy cavalry (not fully) and 2 bodyguard unit.
Ok so i was waiting for the attackers that were invading gates by battering ram. The peasants coming with ladders were no thread for my paves on the wall. So the massive attack of infantry came in against my speer units, i reinforced them by leftside with bodyguard, backside cavalry and rightside second bodygaurd. So the mob was spreading my defends away and in this moment enemy cavalry unit (captain) tried to come through and was immedietley killed by me speerman. About 20 seconds later having lost their captain the whole enemy was fleeing, and that were all speer militia and sergeants were attacking my cavalry units.
So i destroyed with a very small army over 1200 soldiers. My lost were about 40 soldiers.
So what do you think about would this happen i a realistic battle ?

[N3rull]

It would be a very possible scenario, but not as a siege-decisive battle.
Such things did happen, but in numbers. You see, armies didn't assault walls just once after 4 years of siege. They attempted multiple attacks - the siege ended when one attack prove successful enough to cripple some part of the defender's fortifications.
As one of many assaults during a typical Medieval siege, this scenario is possible.

[Idaeus]

Yes if an army for some reason panicked and started falling back in a unorganized matter they could most likely be killed in the same way you described. Not in todays battlefields obviously but in the olden days..

[TwoScoopsOfViking]

Yes if an army for some reason panicked and started falling back in a unorganized matter they could most likely be killed in the same way you described. Not in todays battlefields obviously but in the olden days..

Yes even in todays

[Echad]

Yes if an army for some reason panicked and started falling back in a unorganized matter they could most likely be killed in the same way you described. Not in todays battlefields obviously but in the olden days..

Why, it was like that in WW2 times, and in Vietnam... And in Iraq, due to panic, US soldiers nearly killed each other, good they had no horses.

So yes, when they panic they will turn their backs to you and die... It isn't mostly the case with professional troops, but in Renaisscance some professional armies ran away before the battle began, just by watching huge stack marching on them.

Peasants are more likely to panic... And other units followed after a huge losses, the game counts overall losses, it doesn't matters, 200 peasants have died, or 200 knights, AND, they were at ladders, so it's completely realistic!

You don't know what you are talking about. The movie "300" is 100% historically accurate. Archeologists constantly find remains of huge deformed giants in Persia and they concluded they were used to cut off the heads of bad officers or as soldiers. Xerxes really was a halfnaked 10 foot / 3.5 metre tall giant with more jewelry then BA from the A-team.
The Persians also used lots of animals like battle rhino's and 45 foot / 15 metre tall elephants.
A typical Persian assualt wave was made up of a very loose formation of men. This made it easy for the great Spartans to defeat them.
Since I saw that movie I can't stand to be around deformed, hunchbacked people anymore.

Yes, they also used MAGES throwing grenades and archers actually acted only after the main assault force has died, hitting no one! Assault at that time consisted of levels, with a final boss in the end! You forgot to mention humble few thousands of Greek Allies, which were portrayed in movie by ten pathetic cowards, and the 300, which were, at most, 30...

And the Spartans had no underwear in reality, BTW! And WERE not in ALL in Red Ceasar Capes! =\ They had tunics and Brastplates!

[mlc82]

So yesterday i had to defend Milan as Sicilly against a full stack army of Venetian soldiers: 4 peasant units, 5 town militia, 3 speer militia, 2 sergeants speerman, 5 archer units and one heavy cavalry. I was defending the city with 3 mercenary speerman, 2 militia pavese one heavy cavalry (not fully) and 2 bodyguard unit.
Ok so i was waiting for the attackers that were invading gates by battering ram. The peasants coming with ladders were no thread for my paves on the wall. So the massive attack of infantry came in against my speer units, i reinforced them by leftside with bodyguard, backside cavalry and rightside second bodygaurd. So the mob was spreading my defends away and in this moment enemy cavalry unit (captain) tried to come through and was immedietley killed by me speerman. About 20 seconds later having lost their captain the whole enemy was fleeing, and that were all speer militia and sergeants were attacking my cavalry units.
So i destroyed with a very small army over 1200 soldiers. My lost were about 40 soldiers.
So what do you think about would this happen i a realistic battle ?

The "kamikaze suicide generals" phenomenon has not been fixed since at least Medieval 1, if not Shogun, and caused what happened. The AI general charged (probably a spear wall) in the beginning of the battle, got killed, and wrecked the morale for the rest of the AI army. There are some battle AI mods out there that tone down the AI general death wish syndrome, but I don't know if any have fixed it yet. I get the same thing happening in my Deus lo Vult campaigns, but not as often as in the out of the box game.

[bobfish]

Sieges fail, Generals or any army leader, would not actively fight in a siege.

[Razbojnik]

Big thank to kamikaze generals,because they gave me a huge number of heroic victories

[Cyrus Spitama]

I actually go after the general in most battles, if it's just a captain on foot a well placed cavalry charge from the right will do away with him in the first stages of battle. In most of my battles I end up with more prisoners than kills.

The only really negative thing for me is how the AI sends full stacks to fight their crucial battles without proper leadership while their 8 Command stars general is out walking the woods in the middle of nowhere with a ballista unit.

[Surgeon]

The Medieval II AI cannot fight in siege battles, simple as that. I can take Acre or Jerusalem in the Middle East and chew up any number of Jihads that try to take it back, even if their general doesn't suicide himself. When I'm looking for a challenging campaign, I auto-resolve enemy sieges.

[tallstark]

I saw some stupid movie where a half stack (299?) of spearmen (they didn't even have armor upgrades, they all had loincloths and shields!) with like a 10 star general held of successive attacks from full stacks of archers, infantry, heavy infantry, and even some Tim's showing up with elephants! Totally unrealistic...

[pwijnands]

You don't know what you are talking about. The movie "300" is 100% historically accurate. Archeologists constantly find remains of huge deformed giants in Persia and they concluded they were used to cut off the heads of bad officers or as soldiers. Xerxes really was a halfnaked 10 foot / 3.5 metre tall giant with more jewelry then BA from the A-team.
The Persians also used lots of animals like battle rhino's and 45 foot / 15 metre tall elephants.
A typical Persian assualt wave was made up of a very loose formation of men. This made it easy for the great Spartans to defeat them.
Since I saw that movie I can't stand to be around deformed, hunchbacked people anymore.

[tallstark]

Edward Scissorhands my arse, meet Xenu Hacksawarms! I guess that backs up the point of not doing a dungeons and dragons style Total War, but I actually intend to play the LOTR mod for RTW when I get thru SS and BC in a year or so.

[TwoScoopsOfViking]

In Iraq the vast majority of it's standing Army, a supposed modern fighting force, gave up and surrendered to attack helicopters from the US military. So yes, it happens in our modern era.

[pwijnands]

In Iraq the vast majority of it's standing Army, a supposed modern fighting force, gave up and surrendered to attack helicopters from the US military. So yes, it happens in our modern era.

I also heard of old-fashioned cavalry charging at airplanes in World War I. Don't know if it's true, but I read/saw it somewhere. Makes you wonder what those cavalrymen were thinking.

[N3rull]

Poles charged cavalry at tanks when Germans invaded in 1939 (!)
Here's a link to a (Polish, unfortunately) site selling a (Polish, again ;p) book about it.

[HANDsolo]

Poles charged cavalry at tanks when Germans invaded in 1939

In school, when we covered WW2 in history class, we were shown a black and white photo of this happening. I remember laughing loudly. But, now I realise that war is no laughing matter.

[TwoScoopsOfViking]

Poles charged cavalry at tanks when Germans invaded in 1939 (!)
Here's a link to a (Polish, unfortunately) site selling a (Polish, again ;p) book about it.

Actually the polish cavalry charged the grenadiers not the tanks. The Polish standing Army was, at the time, more than a match for the German Wermacht. Which was comprised of mostly light tanks and HORSE DRAWN artillery. Infact most of the German army was horse drawn. The only reason Poland was swept over so quickly is because their army could not mobilize as fast as Germanys could, it was also due in large part to their leaders who did not want to fight and capitulated early.

[N3rull]

You are absolutely right. The reason I'm not taking it too seriously is because, I believe, Poles deserved it. They deserved everything bad that happened to their widely understood "Independence" over the Centuries, ever since the Nihil Novi constitution in 1505. Polish lack of imagination and their selfishness caused a stagnation and, periodically, complete disappearance of governance. That lead Poland to a state of 'going nowhere' , while its Neighbours kept planning how to use this. And they did.

And by the way, I'm a Pole.

[N3rull]

Actually the reason Poland lost was a 2:1 advantage in numbers of the German infantry and the fact that Poland only had 46 aircraft that could match hundreds on German's side that were not immediately destroyed on ground or useless at the time (namely Moose). Poles fought quite fiercely but were sickly outnumbered, easily surrounded and isolated, while the Germans kept marching their Blitzkrieg. Also, Germans had technological advantage in every field. If German army was horse drawn - most of Poland's army was foot - drawn ;p. Anyway check this.
Polish horses charged tanks because infantry followed them...