JHI - doubts

**Cyrus Spitama** · January 24, 2008, 07:23 AM

So, I'm currently playing a Turkish campaign and the option to start getting JHI has appeared. Now, I've seen them being praised in some topics as a very good unit, but their stats were not that impressive, at least not for the price they go for. So I'd like to know what makes them special or worth the florins?

I've tried a few custom one-on-one battles and they get wiped by western heavy cav if charged. Tried them against english Heavy Billmen, another two handed unit worth just 300 florins and they barely won. Put them up against feudal knights and they got clobbered as I expected, because of the good defence and shield, no surprise there. The weirder custom battle was when I put them up against kights with two handed weapons, who even though are less expensive than the JHI do have better stats than them on both attack and defence, but got wiped out by the JHI much more easily than the supposedly inferior english billmen. How can a two handed unit win against another two handed unit with better stats on all counts?:hmmm:

**Captain Spanky** · January 24, 2008, 09:48 AM

JHI are good because they have a high attack, (for armour piercing), good reach with weapons, and above all, very fast animations.

The thing to remember about this game is that there is a counter for any unit you can possibly field. Heavy cavalry will dominate JHI because of their lower defense when compared to other infantry, but in turn JHI will take care of almost any other infantry unit out there. Use them in a full battle, and you will see that they give a very good account of themselves.

Just keep them away from archers and cavalry, and they are Turkish supermen.

**Ambiorix_thijs** · January 24, 2008, 10:05 AM

yup they are very good units, to charge the enemy line, not to hold a line when facing cavalry.

**Cyrus Spitama** · January 24, 2008, 10:18 AM

I wasn't really questioning the cavalry trouble, getting charged by Templar Knights does that to you, it's a router for most infantry units, my main doubts were regarding similar two handed infantry units. I propped them against heavy billmen and croatian axemen (another cheapo two hander unit, 250 florins I think, but I gave them a slight experience bonus, only one or two chevrons) and the JHI barely won, losing the majority of their men. They only came out clear winners against spear units like armoured sergeants and, curiously enough, the similarly armed but with superior attack and defence stats two hander western knights.

Another thing that is pissing me off with the Turkish campaign is that castle barracks are useless, at Fortress level, you get Azabs wich are a bunch of peasants by any other name. Well, I guess the idea is to have to rely on horse archers for this faction anyway.

**Captain Spanky** · January 24, 2008, 10:47 AM

Yeah thats true, but dont discount Ottoman Infantry, which make excellent hybrib units. Also later on are the D. Sipahi Lancers, which are excellent spearmen.

**Sher Khan** · January 24, 2008, 12:08 PM

D. Sipahis are beautiful spearmen, among one of the best in the game.

Are you playing any mods? Version 1.2/1.3? Who are you running your custom battle tests?

**Ambiorix_thijs** · January 24, 2008, 01:17 PM

jup, Turks are just same civ as russians. First you rely on your horse archers after the gunpowder era or when yor cities and castles evolve you can make super archers or musketeers;

SO

Cavs first

than

Infantry

**Cyrus Spitama** · January 24, 2008, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Sher Khan

D. Sipahis are beautiful spearmen, among one of the best in the game.

Are you playing any mods? Version 1.2/1.3? Who are you running your custom battle tests?

I'm using 1.3, I've started playing M2 recently, want to do a fair share of vanilla playing before I jump into any mod, plus the chances are mods will be less buggy by the time I make the transition a couple of months from now.

By the way, I've seen a lot of people refering to 1.2 instead of 1.3, should I have sticked to 1.2, was the last patch unnecessary?

**Sher Khan** · January 24, 2008, 05:57 PM

Well, no, it doesn't change anything save for making Kingdoms compatible. 1.2 is no different from 1.3 as far as units go.

How about the actual battle? Are you controlling the JHI, or the AI? Do they get a proper charge set up, or simply run into the fray and then start fighting?

**Cyrus Spitama** · January 24, 2008, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Sher Khan

Well, no, it doesn't change anything save for making Kingdoms compatible. 1.2 is no different from 1.3 as far as units go.

How about the actual battle? Are you controlling the JHI, or the AI? Do they get a proper charge set up, or simply run into the fray and then start fighting?

Always controlled the other units and let the JHI under AI control. Both units always charged at each other, the JHI usually taking more casualties from the charge, but managing to recover somewhat afterwards, except with the dismounted feudal knights where the charge was about equal but the knights steadily dominated afterwards.When in doubt and the first take was not a certifiable win or I didn't think one of the charges went as planned, I replayed the battle, and in most cases I got the same results with only slight variations.

**Sher Khan** · January 25, 2008, 01:36 AM

Playing as JHI myself, I get mixed results. Many times the AI pulls back and charges again.

Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.

It all comes down to the casualties they take on the initial charge, which is massive due to their low defense stats. Their key role should be relegated to flanking duties and reinforcing the front line once the charge is over. Here, they excel. If the enemy does not have the luxury of the charge, they will lose 1 on 1 with the JHI.