Foolish AI Generals.

**Borluc** · January 20, 2008, 10:49 PM

Hi again,

I started another campaign as GCS without loyalty (to avoid crash). Everything is going ok so far. I installed Darths option as well, and while the battle AI is pretty good, I noticed the generals committing suicide on my battle line over and over again. I'm using the BI disc when playing and in BI vanilla I don't see this ridiculous behaviour.

Are there any fixes I can dl and install to correct this? It sucks killing the enemy general in the first 3 minutes of the fight only to face a full stack afterwards. In vanilla, usually the general attacks later and at weak points.

Thanks.

**Scutarii** · January 21, 2008, 05:33 PM

The general behaviour hasn't really changed from vanilla, I find. I don't get suicide generals much at all, unless I have AI controlled reinforcements.

**Warmaster** · January 21, 2008, 07:33 PM

The only thing I can think of that would really affect this at all would be the fact that you have Darth Formations installed. This means that it might make the generals begin the battle closer to the front lines than they normally would so when they charge out they're going to go out in front of the main line. I'm not sure if that's the problem but its about the only thing that would change what a general does in battle that XGM affects.

That said, I use Darth Formations and don't seem to have a problem with it at all...

**Borluc** · January 22, 2008, 12:22 AM

I'll continue playing to see if the behaviour continues.

Maybe I'm just doomed to never find a Total War game/mod that I can accept.

**Kara Kolyo** · January 22, 2008, 03:15 AM

Actually in XGM the generals are not so suicidal as in vanila rtw or mods where they have big bodyguard units. Dime worked hard to balance them and it's very rare to see a general charging a line of pikes. But at the same time it is historical to have from time to time a foolish or not so general charging head on. Alexander didn't sit behind, Vladislav IV Jagelo lost the battle of Varna and his life charging at the janissary and so on.

**DimeBagHo** · January 22, 2008, 08:11 AM

The generals in XGM have fewer hitpoints and lower morale than in vanilla - which means they are somewhat less inclined to make suicidal attacks. I don't think there is much more we can do to make them behave more intelligently.

**Jacob Debroedere** · January 22, 2008, 10:09 AM

[quote=Kara Kolyo;2600694]. Dime worked hard to balance them and it's very rare to see a general charging a line of pikes. [quote]
That's what happened in my first battle as Macedon versus the Gaul horde. Their general charged solely into my phalanx line, with the main Gallic army yards behind. It was the first and the last time an general behaved so stupid, in other battles they behaved like they should and stayed behind the battle line.

**synthesis** · January 22, 2008, 10:39 AM

A little off topic, but is there a way to get Roman infantry to charge into your pikes?

All they do is attack my flanks without "pinning" the rest of the battleline. I've started using more hypaspists and I'm thinking they should comprise all of my heavy infantry and that I should start using the manipular setup.

**Borluc** · January 22, 2008, 11:15 PM

Seriously, I think I was just being too critical. Little warning flags go off to warn me early on so I don't spend all the time playing a drawn out campaign, but sometimes they are false alarms.

This mod seems to be very stable and I like how it improves and expands vanilla without completely obliterating it.

Sorry if it sounded like I was *****ing.

P.S. Dimebag do you suggest using Darths Formations? Thanks.

P.P.S. Off topic, but is it strange for the Germans to have such a large income early on? I build Land Clearance, roads, and Traders, and my income is like 5k a turn. I notice my armed forces are not bulked up, but as Iberia, I seemed to have a much harder time maintaining my forces and making money. Playing on H/H.

**Balikedes** · January 23, 2008, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by synthesis

A little off topic, but is there a way to get Roman infantry to charge into your pikes?

All they do is attack my flanks without "pinning" the rest of the battleline. I've started using more hypaspists and I'm thinking they should comprise all of my heavy infantry and that I should start using the manipular setup.

Try putting some expendable units in front of your pikes to lure the Romans in. When they engage the expendable units walk your pike line into them without calling for an attack. Works for me most of the time...

.

edit: Or like Unknown Soldier said...that works too

.

**DimeBagHo** · January 23, 2008, 09:55 AM

Borluc: I always use Darth's formations myself.

You will find that the size of your military has a large impact on expenses. The Germans get a bit more breathing room at the start, so you can manage with a smaller military for a while.

synthesis: I like the method that Unknown Soldier described. I usually place a thin line of peltasts and slingers, mixed together in loose formation, very close in front of my main line. I put the peltasts on defend, and the slingers on defend and skirmish. That way the pletasts hold their place and tangle up any charging units, while the slingers fall back, but return to position if the enemy withdraws.

**Unknown Soldier** · January 23, 2008, 06:49 AM

synthesis: would you charge your romans into an AI pike line?

try putting a unit of slingers stretched across the pike unit's frontage virtually amongst the pike heads lots of AI units tend to charge at them and then they retire behind the pikes and bam lots of pointy pike type death!

**synthesis** · January 24, 2008, 12:30 PM

Sorry to derail, but I have to wonder if your guys' copies of XGM are more reasonable than mine, ha!

I know there are limitations to what a modder can do, so I'm not complaining about DBH or Darth, but there are a number of issues that annoy me:

Because the AI is so adamant on flanking me when they are attacking, they get stretched out in the "V" formation as they approach. They attack bit by bit and I can never engage them en masse. I can goad some of them to engage the pike line with the skirmishers, but they only have so much ammo (although maybe I should switch to slingers for this purpose). I don't want to implement anything heavier than thureophoroi for this because I want them to protect my flanks.
On defense, they constantly shift around their battle line as I approach. I have to force them to engage by walking my pike line into them, but I can only catch a few of them. The rest of them fall back into reserve or try to flank me. I can't split up the pike line without creating gaps for the AI to exploit, so I have become more and more reliant on more mobile infantry.
The AI has a penchant for reinforcements which, after entering the battlefield from the edge, come right at my...you guessed it, flank. If I compensate, they realize they can't flank me and then they run around like a headless chicken for a while before adopted the policy mentioned previously.
Concerning sacrifical units...when the Roman infantryman attacks, they first open up with the pilum. My skirmishers could either receive the volley and then fall back, fall back into the pike line and let the phalangites take some of the heat, or fall back out of pilum range. The latter of which typically causes them to fall back since their obvious target was the skirmishers and not the phalangites.
I could go on, but basically I'm starting to adopt a "fight fire with fire" policy instead of "rock-paper-scissors." For example, I started dealing with the Romans onagers with bringing my own and targeting the artillery equipment itself. Skirmisher units fall back when chased with cavalry into the mass of Roman infantry where I can't pursue, so I dispatch them with my own skirmisher units. That being said, XGM is my favorite RTW era mod. I'm waiting for something comparable for MTW2.

Granted I have been using thureophoroi instead of peltasts, and I prefer to pull them back after expended their ammo to form a reserve line. Instead of using them as bait I have them fend off flankers so that I can wheel around something heavier to address the threat.

Unknown Soldier: Actually, I tried the Roman campaign recently and when fighting Pyrrhus, I did charge some units into the pikes because even they can't pick a position to defend. I used my hastati and few princepes to stop their obnoxious running around (don't ask me why because I was approaching them head on). I brought the other stuff around their flanks, routed their elephants with my velites, and so on.

**Kara Kolyo** · January 24, 2008, 02:38 PM

There is one situation where the AI is forced to meet your phalanx line, but it's concidered almost as cheating. When you see an enemy army, stand on it's path and play defencive battle (it it will help you feel better - don't choose a hill) then arrange your pikes in a corner and cover the flanks with your usual infantry. The ai will still try to breach your flanks, but it will go against the pikes too.