Is Scotland riding on the backs of the English?

[removeduser_487563287433]

Free university tuition, free personal care for the elderly, free prescriptions on the way. Has Scotland become the land of the free at the expense of Britain's other nations and regions?

Ruth Olifant studies anthropology at Aberdeen University. She and her English friend Anna have to pay tuition fees capped at £3,000 per year, unlike their Scottish friend, Annie.

Ruth says: "It does feel a bit unfair sometimes. It's absolutely essential that I work so I can survive, really, because you have this extra burden, this extra debt."

Anna is more resigned: "Scotland is a separate country, it has separate powers. Obviously I'd like to not pay fees - that would be fantastic but you can't brew about it."

Barnett Formula

Since devolution, the Scottish Parliament has had control over its education policies - and rejected up-front tuition fees for Scottish students at Scottish universities.

They pay a "graduate endowment" at the end of their courses - which, at £2,289 for those who began studying in 2006/7, is by far the cheaper option.

And it's not only tuition fees. The elderly in Scotland also get free personal care and by 2011 the governing SNP want to abolish prescription charges.

What angers MPs representing English regions is the system by which money is allocated to the Scottish Parliament - not by tax revenue but by something called the Barnett Formula.

The formula allocates a lump sum for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, then for every additional pound spent in England - approximately 10p is allocated to Scotland, 5p to Wales and 3p to Northern Ireland, based on their populations.

London's £16bn Crossrail project will trigger an automatic payment to Edinburgh of almost £1bn.

"It's absurd," said Labour's Manchester Blackley MP Graham Stringer.

"What was a political fix over 30 years ago to keep ministers quiet is now being used to transfer huge quantities of money into Scotland when they're needed in the English regions."

'Clearly unfair'

He says money is not distributed according to need: "Edinburgh gets its trams. Manchester doesn't get its tram extension. The money flies over Manchester into Scotland on no rational basis."

Even Lord Barnett, who was Chief Secretary to the Treasury in 1978 when the formula was introduced, believes the formula should be scrapped.

"It made life a little easier for me and the constant problems I had in cutting public expenditure, to say 'they get a certain amount, leave me alone and you carry on'. I never anticipated that it would last very long".

He blames its survival on successive prime ministers being too afraid of upsetting the Scots and the Welsh and says expenditure per head is now "clearly unfair" to parts of England.

But the SNP's Scottish Finance Secretary John Swinney says, in fact, Scotland suffers from a Barnett squeeze.

"The Barnett Formula far from being generous to Scotland is actually forcing the difference between public spending in Scotland and England together, simply because the Scottish population accounts for a much smaller proportion of the UK population that it used to in the past."

Means-tested care

A report last year from consultants, Oxford Economics, suggests that Scotland pays roughly as much in tax as it receives in public spending. Mr Swinney says Scotland is making an enormous contribution through the UK through oil revenues for which they get nothing in return.

"What Scottish oil has delivered over the last 30 years is a very, very helpful resource to prop up the ailing finances of the UK. And that's benefited prime ministers from Margaret Thatcher to Gordon Brown."

For individuals living south of the border, the rules have a real impact on their personal circumstances.

Brian and Viv Yates have sold their home and are spending their savings on luxuries like holidays and new cars. They are not reckless spendthrifts. They have learnt from the experience of Viv's mum who is 96 years old and was recently diagnosed with dementia.

Selling home

The family have been forced to sell her bungalow because elderly care is means-tested in England.

Had they lived in Scotland they would still have had to pay for a care home but she would have been entitled to £145 for personal care at home and if she needed nursing there would be another £65 available to her.

Brian said that might have made it possible for her to go back to her own home.

"She had a lovely bungalow," he said.

Viv added: "We paid for someone to come in at lunchtime and my older sister took care in the evening."

"If we could have paid for someone overnight that would have solved the problem".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7196486.stm

This is an important issue for me, and one I think is a pretty absurd situation that needs to be corrected. The Scottish are enjoying these benefits for absolutely no good reason, paid for entirely by England, containing some ~85% of the United Kingdom's population. Whilst the Estury towns of my northern Kent home region practically decay, home prices rocket, and not enough new homes are built the Scots enjoy free higher education (**** that, I think, as I admire my ~10k debt and the 1k savings I have squirreled away from slaving at a bar to keep my head above water), free personal care for the elderly, whilst my family pulls together to fund my great-grandmother in her old age, and for all this charity the Independence movement in Scotland rumbles on.

So here I am, suffering what I must but the Scots get for free, from taxes I myself pay. It is absurd, I cannot see a single justification for it.

[Giorgos]

You'll be dealing with the Scots for the rest of your existence. Even in peace they cause you trouble.

[Shaun]

I think this is excellent.

[Joker85]

If ~half of them really want independence give it to them. Everyone is happy. You don't have to give them welfare and they don't have to live under the evil english.

Most of all you would fulfill the hopes and dreams of brave people like Mel Gibson.

[Gary88]

i say we give them independence so long as they pay it all back.

[removeduser_487563287433]

i say we give them independence so long as they pay it all back.

Including the bill for the absurdly overbudget Scottish Parliament.

[The Super Pope]

**** Scotland. Why keep this valueless leech on our economy when they hate us anyway?

[Justice and Mercy]

**** Scotland. Why keep this valueless leech on our economy when they hate us anyway?

Huh... that is an excellent argument against poor people.

I think I'll write that one down.

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

Well they have the oil to be fair...

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well they have the oil to be fair...

The economy of the United Kingdom is based overwhelmingly in England, the oil is a poor excuse.

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

The economy of the United Kingdom is based overwhelmingly in England, the oil is a poor excuse.

Aye but Scotland is like... Empty. Without England I'm sure they would be something like Norway, little oil + small population = loads of cash...
Naja I'm just guessing, I'm not sure how much money the oil makes but if I'm not misstaken they have quite a large oil reserve.
Damn I wanna move to Norway!

[removeduser_487563287433]

Aye but Scotland is like... Empty. Without England I'm sure they would be something like Norway, little oil + small population = loads of cash...
Naja I'm just guessing, I'm not sure how much money the oil makes but if I'm not misstaken they have quite a large oil reserve.
Damn I wanna move to Norway!

The idea of the SNP, which has been met with heavy criticism from both the Scottish Labour Party and the Scottish Conservative Party is to cultivate a 'Celtic Tiger economy', like that of Ireland, based on oil and EU revenues. The problem with this is that the financial services that it would rely on are based in England. Under no fantasy could they afford for all these benefits that Scots currently enjoy beyond abusing the English tax payer.

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

The idea of the SNP, which has been met with heavy criticism from both the Scottish Labour Party and the Scottish Conservative Party is to cultivate a 'Celtic Tiger economy', like that of Ireland, based on oil and EU revenues. The problem with this is that the financial services that it would rely on are based in England. Under no fantasy could they afford for all these benefits that Scots currently enjoy beyond abusing the English tax payer.

If you say so. Ireland is overrated though, they aren't as rich as people think. Big companies just like to present their gains there because of the low tax burden, the companies themselves are based somewhere in India .
Anyway this sounds completely idiotic, why aren't people protesting in London right now?

That's running out though. And its owned by corporations, not the state.

I think in some respects any rational scottish person would hold on to the status quo, they get more money than they would, they make their own decisions and they have their own national football team without the heady responsibility of sovereignty. I'd like to see them pay for all the social welfare (as much as i approve of it all) when they add in a defense budget to all that, as unfortunate a necessity as that is.

I think it's the same in Norway. Either that or the state just owns large shares in the company. Anyway they can tax the income of the companies, gief money plx .

[Finn]

If you think it's unfair e-mail your your local pol and kick up a fuss, or start a petition and get your fellow citizens involved. If enough people get on board maybe you'll get some attention and something will be done - unlikely but you never know.

[Shaun]

And abusing the English and Welsh taxpayer is what we will continue to do, with much enjoyment.

Perhaps once the oil runs out the nationalists might get independence. Then we'll be broke.

[removeduser_487563287433]

And abusing the English and Welsh taxpayer is what we will continue to do, with much enjoyment.

Perhaps once the oil runs out the nationalists might get independence. Then we'll be broke.

No, the corrupt system under which Scotland gets its underserved wealth also benefits Wales and Northern Ireland, according to their population. The burden is bourne by the English.

If you say so. Ireland is overrated though, they aren't as rich as people think. Big companies just like to present their gains there because of the low tax burden, the companies themselves are based somewhere in India .
Anyway this sounds completely idiotic, why aren't people protesting in London right now?

People protest about wars they don't understand, McDonalds and foxes, not important matters.

[Bwaho]

rebuild hadrians wall

[King Edward III]

rebuild hadrians wall

Or we could just conquer Scotland and make it a vassal..

[King Yngvar]

From Wiki:
The Norwegian government established its own oil company, Statoil, and awarded drilling and production rights to Norsk Hydro and the newly formed Saga Petroleum.

Anyway, what stops Scotland from doing the same?

That they are still under English rule

Arg, why was Orkney sold to the Scotts in the 1400's, think of all the extra oil now wasted on the English...

[jankren]

William Wallace must be smiling in his grave.