Communisim: could it suceed??

[Axeman]

EDIT: Before you respond, post an explination why, we don't need half a thread full of NO responses, this is a hypothetical thread so remember that....

Ok, well firstly I am not saying lets unite the world under the hammer and sickle and such, my question is simple. Lets say a country with no major allies or enemies, basically all on its own, and for the sake of arguement lets say its completely self sufficent, could communisim suceed? By suceed I mean have a standard of life equivallent to that of those in Western Europe or America, not a military dictatorship. In addition could it survive in the modern day world if a series of ideal conditions fell into its lap?

Thoughts please:hmmm:

[Joker85]

No.

[JP226]

nope

[Domnul Ceaşcă]

NO!

[Axeman]

Well I was hoping for more responses other then just no, and list some reasons why rather then just dismissing the fact it failed in the past.....

[JP226]

what do you want? It's a stupid question.

[Last Roman]

what do you want? It's a stupid question.

it's not, because it has worked before.

That said, it has to be on a small scale. There is no way, for example, that it would work on a national level in America.

If it were a small town of several hundred, it could. Look at early humans, or if you're looking for something more modern, the Israeli kibbutz's.

[Sebdeas]

No.
We humans don't like the idea of having to rely on others to supply or food.
We want complete control on how we get our food.
And we want our freedom, to do what we want.
Communism relies on complete obedience(and a good secret police force).

[Maverick]

"No".

I bet you people have done your reading!

For example...

We humans don't like the idea of having to rely on others to supply or food.
We want complete control on how we get our food.

Lenin's New Economic Policy was a lot more capitalistic than socialistic when it came to food production so much so that the Marxists and Bolsheviks saw it as a betrayal of Communist principles.

Food production was centralized under the dictatorship of Stalin.

The point is any system of government can work. Political theory is much less important than responsible leadership and it's unfortunate that Stalin's name is synonymous with Communism because actions speak louder than words and Stalin's actions had nothing to do with social collectivism. He may have been a Communist at some point in his life but after he assumed total power and control of the party he was just another bloody tyrant.

It was Stalin, not Communism that was inherently flawed. With good, responsible leadership any system can work; Monarchy, Dictatorship, Democracy... these are meaningless words because human beings operate governments and no matter what "checks and balances" there are for power, significant power ultimately has to be invested in a person or persons and the government will succeed or fail based on their merits.

[Axeman]

A reason why it couldn't the hypothetical question says if a series of optimum conditions fell upon it.

Communisim had alot of problems without a doubt. Lets say an isolated country with a large ammount of cash with no debt started a massive public work project, and began to nationalize all its major industrys to further the governments wealth creating more industry. I realize this is overly simplified but I think, with a series of unlikely events, and the world not going crazy on the commies, it could work. In ancient greece and thrace nobody thought democracy would work either....

EDIT_where does it say all communist governments have to have zero political freedom, I don't recall reading that in Marx's writings, lets put the history of communiism aside. Also in a way don't you get more freedom if you don't have to worry about alot of basic things??

[Domnul Ceaşcă]

Also in a way don't you get more freedom if you don't have to worry about alot of basic things??

I could ask you the same question,

(just an example)

Don`t you get more freedom if you don`t have to rely on someone suplying you with food?

[Joker85]

The only ideal condition would be for humans to cut open their heads, take out their brains, place them in a box, then proceed to walk the earth as zombie like creatures toiling the fields.

[JP226]

don't you get more freedom if you don't have to worry about alot of basic things??

That's going in the sig, that is ****ing classic!

[Axeman]

Not in a literal since lol....

But I would enjoy going to bed at night and not thinking of paying the rent, I am saying that anything is possible, and we should be more open minded.

[Cyphon88]

Yes it could happen. Although a few things need to be kept in mind. Not the traditionally held of idea of communism = china/ussr which was authoritarian communism. i propose more liberal communism, like liberal egalitarianism or syndo-anarchism. It would require some re-adjustment of people's mindset but not to a massive extent. There are enough people in the world with a left leaning mindset that if put into one country would set up a socialist government (or possibly not a government - depends on how they were organized). I don't have a blueprint to hand to say this is exactly how it would work, but i have enough belief that it would work.

[Oldgamer]

But I would enjoy going to bed at night and not thinking of paying the rent, I am saying that anything is possible, and we should be more open minded.

Someone always pays the rent, my friend.

If you don't pay the rent, many of your neighbors will pay it. Remember that someone else, somewhere else, will decide whether you get to live where you do, and what you will do in life. They will also decide what you will eat, whom you will marry, and how many children you will have. And if the history of communism gives us any evidence at all, you will ride a bicycle to work, and the people who decide your life for you will get Zil limousines.

Also, if the conditions of the country are so well-suited for communism ... this is your basic reasoning in the thread, isn't it? ... why do you need communism? If it isn't broke, it doesn't need to be fixed.

Communism, like all authoritarian systems, always arises where the conditions are not good. It is a revolutionary system, and feeds off of popular discontent.

[Axeman]

It really depends on your point of view?

If you rely on someone else you have freedom to do other things

If you rely on yourself you get to choose what type of food

Basically, I am just playing the devil's advocate.

[JP226]

I don't have a blueprint to hand to say this is exactly how it would work, but i have enough belief that it would work.

you don't know how it would work, but you know it would work?

Look, people, it can't work primarily because it can't adapt. For example, what communism or socialism is, is a person deciding how much to make and change versus a signal. Let's take something as simple as a #2 pencil, you have to decide how much rubber/ whatever the earsr is made of, the aluminum, the wood, the paint, and the lead composite, and whatever other part I could be missing. But the fun doesn't stop there does it? Oh no, what about the machines to put that pencil together? What about the parts to make that machine? What about the parts to make the machines that make the earaser that you later use to make the pencil? Hell, i'm getting confused just trying to think about it. Oh then, let's forcast adaptation while we're at it huh? Can you see advancements in pencil technology? Then advancements in the machines to make the parts for the materials that go into those advancements, which then go into the advanced parts that go into the... aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now in our capitalist system, we only need to think of one simple thing, profit. Go where the money is and it just so happens the money exist where the probelms above are solved. You only need to know how to maximize revenue.

[MasterOfNone]

No, because it violates human nature and the natural laws of justice and morality. Deep down the human spirit can never embrace it - hence its failure even when imposed.

[Sleeper]

Anarcho communism could succeed in a globally unified world with nearly unlimited resources.

Otherwise no.