Historical Battles

[Vitez]

Could you make battle of Sisak.And Vienna.
Croatians stopped Turks from destroying Europe.
And Ban Josip Jelačić defeated turks and defended Vienna.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sisak

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitka_kod_Siska

[Sarmatian]

Turks destroying Europe? Ok, first of all, Turks didn't destroy anything, they conquered. Second, they weren't some kind of barbarians or vandals. In fact, expecially during the TTW timeframe, Ottoman Empire was one of the most cultured, most organized and most enlightened state in Europe. The empire was stable, efficient and rich. Much of the Balkan population actually preffered Ottoman rule compared to their christian rulers, because taxes were lower, there was no corruption among the tax collectors and the general security was higher, among other.

Also, just about every christian nation from Caucasus to Balkans and central Europe is claiming the mantle of "defenders of the Christianity" which stopped the dreaded muslims from conquering Europe. It is getting boring. The fact which truly saved Vienna was not some heroic act (no disrespect to any of the defenders of course) but the fact that Vienna was at the very end of the Ottoman reach, in terms of logistic. Untile 17th century, when they started to lag behind, Ottomans had probably the best organized army in entire Europe.

Last, but not the least, TTW timeframe is 1345-1530, and any historical battle needs to be within those boundaries, or 10-20 years before or after max. Battle of Sisak happened in 1593, which is more than half a century later...

[Silesian_Noble]

Maybe then Polish-Moldavian battle of Obertyn from 1531? But you need working wagon forts to show this battle as it was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Obertyn

[Tzar]

Croatians stopped Turks from destroying Europe.
And Ban Josip Jelačić defeated turks and defended Vienna.

[\Vazul's Ghost/]

Here, Have a picture of the Battle of Nicopolis, scanned from a British history book. Hope it helps and sorry for any lack of quality or annoying spine marks.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Romano-Dacis]

Some other cool battle suggestions could be:
1) The Battle of Karanovasa: Mircea the Old's forces ambushed an invading Turkish army near the river Arges, driving them back into the Ottoman camp, which was surrounded by a ring of stakes. It was here that most of the battle would take place, and the battle supposedly lasted throughout the night. The Wallachians won, but the battle was bloody, leaving Mircea's forces weakened when he faced the Ottomans less than a year later at Rovine.

2) The Battle of Rovine: Not a lot of info on this one, but it's strangely more memorable in Romanian history than Karanovasa. From Bulgarian chronicles, we know that the Wallachian archers played a key role, but not much else. It once again took place near the Arges river. The Ottomans outnumbered the Wallachians 5 to 1 (48,000 to less than 10,000), but that may be an exaggeration.

3) Battle of Velbuszd: I don't know too much about this one, except that a joint-army from Wallachia and Bulgaria was defeated by the Serbians. It's a good idea for a battle which *gasp* doesn't involve the Ottomans.

If we can script it, I'd still prefer the Night Attack over these.

[vilil]

About Battle of Maritza. There is a bit of controversy. Turks says it happend 1364. not quite near the river, on the left side. Place they call "Sırpsındığı Savaşı", and western hystorians says it happened 1371. near Tchernomen today Ormeni, and it is near the river, on the right side.

Lala Şahin Paşa - 11000people
Ugljesa, Vukašin Mrnjavčević - 20000people.

[Orko]

I think battle of Kosovo, Velbazhd, and Varna MUST be in. Siege of Vienna should only be in when the later version with Austria will come out.

[Bosnae]

Well if here is may suggestion for the Bosnian Banat (these battles are not so huge but pretty interesting)

Battle of Bileća (1388):
A Ottoman Army was defeated by the Bosnian Vojvod Vlatko Vukovič Kosača, it was probobly one of the first bigger defeates the Ottoman had gaind at the Balkan.

Battle of Doboj (1415):
A much bigger Battle in wich the Bosnian Troops fought together with the Ottomans! against an Hungarian Expeditioniere Force.
http://www.balkanhistory.com/doboj_1415.htm

[Sarmatian]

You need to make a better case for the battle. Like why was it important, did it influence significantly the balance of power later, was it decisive etc...

Also the main purposes of this thread was to get people to do some research on the battles, not just to suggest them, since we're busy with other stuff. Unfortunately, closest thing to doing some research were links to wikipedia articles...

[Bosnae]

Ok, Sorry forgot you have to deal my with more important stuff, my fail.

[Kavhan Isbul]

I have not played Kingdoms yet, I have only played M2TW wioth patches, so please do not tear me apart if I am asking a stupid question. In the battle of Varna, there were interesting elements such as traps which the janissaries had in front of their line, which supposedly helped break the Polish knights charge and brought about the demise of Vladyslav Varnenczyk. Can this be represented in the battle with something more elaborate than some stakes? There was also a wagenburg with Bohemians, who used primitive firearms to a pretty deadly effect. It was actually suggested that the majority of the Ottoman casualties were taken during the Ottoman attempts to storm the wagenburg. Can this also be represented, with the firearms?
And just a monor point - I am against sieges just because the AI is horrible in either defending or assaulting. I can imagine playing the Ottomans siege of Constantinople and actually luring the Roman emperor out, slaughtering the Genoese crossbowmen with some janissaries and winning by occupying the square with a unit of Deli or something else that is quick enough, while the emperor is duking it out with the rest of my troops outside of the city. Now, if there is a way to represent epic sieges such as Constantinople and Rhodes (important or not, the Knights of St. John stand was as heroic as they get and thus fun to play) in a manner in which the AI is in some favorable, impossible to screw up position, then I am all for it, but I just cannot see it.

[Bosnae]

Well, here is an example for an battle without Ottomans. As you lads wanted to add some italian Factions and France as an emergin Faction to the game. What would you think about adding the Battle of Agnadello in to the List. It was one of the most importent Battles in the Italian Wars (maybe some of you read Machiavelli's Il Principe), however the Ventian expansion in the Terra Firma was stopped by the League of Cambrai, an Alliance between France, the Papal State, and the HRE wich would be presented in the Mod by the Archduchy of Austria.

[Arto]

Battle of Maritsa
Battle of Baia
Battle of the Cosmin Forest
Battle of Vaslui

[speedyvm]

Hey there, guys!
I read here that you want to add the Battle of Nicopolis (1394), so I was thinking to give you some help with researching

Europe and Ottoman Empire

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Crusader Leaders (part 1)

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Crusader Leaders (part 2)

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Ottoman Leaders(part 1)

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Ottoman Leaders(part 2)

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Crusader Invasion

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Crusader Invasion Plans

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The Ottoman defence Plan

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March to Nicopolis

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Byazids Respense

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Bayazid Strikes Back

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De Councy's raid

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The main assault

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A ferocious attack by the Franco-Burgundian division swept aside the akinci light cavalry skirmishers. But when
he knights also broke through the Ottoman field fortifications and infantry il looked as if Bayazid's plan might fall.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Laconian]

Nice research. The Battle of Nicopolis would have to be part of the game if historical battles are included.

[Nakharar]

Hey dont you need a historical map creator??? well i can do it but im busy with coding one of you should learn it its quite simple really...

[Kara Kolyo]

What do you think about adding the battle of Ankara 1402? (i know it's with the ottomans - but hey they lost it)? It has all it takes to make a nice historical battle - christians, ottomans, mongols, betrayal, interesting use of cages and so on....

[The Noble Lord]

Hi guys, historical battles for Tsardoms is an idea we've been tossing around for some time. It would be nice to have some historical battles to add more flavour to the mod. The thing with is, we're busy with doing other stuff, but instead of dropping the idea altogether, we decided to give everybody a chance to contribute, so that we could put them in some later versions. The more research gets done, the easier for us to include them.

This is the potential list of the battles. Now, this doesn't mean that all of them are going to get in, but this list covers more or less all important battles of the timeframe and region.

Velbuzhd (1331)
Maritza (1371)
Kosovo (1389)
Nicopolis (1394)
Ankara (1402)
Varna (1444)
siege of Constantinople (1453)
siege of Belgrade (1456)
Vaslui (1475)
siege of Rhodes (1522)
Mohacz (1526)
siege of Vienna (1529)

So this is it. Your chance to contribute with research and help us make Tsardoms to be the best mod for a TW game ever.

Hi,


The list is very good, however I would love to see some important battles added.
Here are my suggestions:
Battle of Dubravnica 1381 is the first recorded clash between Serbian Tsar Lazar and the Ottomans.
Battle of Plocnik 1386 is the battle that ended with Serbian victory. It is notable to say that Milos Obilic was wounded by an arrow.
Battle of Bileca 1388 is the battle that was fought in Hercegovina. The Serbian and Bosnian forces under the command of Serbian noble Vlatko Vukovic Kosaca defeated the Turks.

If these battles could be added it would be great.

Croatians stopped Turks from destroying Europe.
And Ban Josip Jelačić defeated turks and defended Vienna.

CHEERS

[Dushan the Powerfull]

Hello.

Here are some informations about battle of Velbuzhd:

The Battle was fought by Serbians under the comand of Stefan Decanski and Bulgarian force comanded by Michael Shishman.It happend on day 28 july 1330 near town of Velbuzhd.
Both sides had circa 15000 men.
Serbian army was added with 1000 spanish and german merceneries and Bulgarians had a backup of 3000 men from Wallachia sent by Basarab of Wallachia.
The bulk of the two armies camped in the vicinity of Velbuzhd but both Michael Shishman and Stefan Decanski expected reinforcements and from 24 July they began negotiations which ended with one-day truce. According to some historians there was a minor clash between the armies near the village of Kopilovtsi in which the Serbs were repulsed and showed their King that his forces were not enough to achieve success. The Emperor had other problems which influenced his decision for the truce: the army supply units had not yet arrived and the Bulgarians were in shortage of food. Their troops scattered around the country and the nearby villages to search for provisions. Meanwhile, receiving a sizable reinforcement led by his son Stefan Dušan during the night (including foreign mercenaries), the Serbian king broke his word and attacked early on 28 July 1330 and caught the Bulgarian army by surprise. One Serbian unit under the command of Decanski took the Spasovitsa heights while more Serb troops including 1,000 heavily armoured Catalan mercenaries led by Stefan Dusan penetrated the valley of the Dragovishtitsa river toward the village of Shishkovtsi. The main battle took place between the village and the Spasovitsa heights in a locality called Bozhuritsa. According to a local legend the name derived from the flower bozhur (peony) which grew up from the blood of the fallen Bulgarian soldiers.
Although called by total surprise Michael Shishman attempted to bring his army to order but it was too late and the outnumbered Bulgarian units were crushed. The battle was bloody because the remaining Bulgarian forces on the battlefield stiffly resisted and according to some chroniclers the river reddened. Both sides suffered heavy casualties and the Bulgarian camp was looted by the Serbs. The Emperor himself was badly wounded, his horse killed under him and was captured by the coming enemy soldiers. He was taken to the Serbian camp where he probably expired from his wounds on the fourth day of his captivity, on 31 July. Some other theories suggest that he perished on the battlefield or was killed by order of Stefan Dusan.The body of the ill-fated Emperor Michael was brought to King Stefan and was consequently buried in the monastery of Staro Nagorichino (near Kumanovo). On the place where he spent his last night praying in his tent, Stefan built a church (still existent to this day).

On the second day after the battle (30 July) the Serbs advanced towards the Konyavska mountain but it was impossible for them to achieve any success because more Bulgarian troops under Michael's brother Belaur and the governor of Lovech Ivan Alexander were concentrated around the Izvor castle and blocked the way to the interior of the country. Near Izvor Belaur met King Stefan Decanski and they concluded a peace. The Bulgarians agreed to accept as their ruler the underage Ivan Stefan, the son of Michael Shishman and Stefan’s sister Anna Neda. There were minor territorial changes along the current border of the two states but after the battle Bulgaria could not prevent the Serbian invasion of Macedonia.