[Decision] Update the Debate Forum Rules

[removeduser_487563287433]

Now, I know we have a flurry of threads on essentially the same issue in the Q&S, but I would really like to question whether the current policy is really best for tackling the issues in the mudpit. Now, I know that no rules have been changed, and that now they are simply being enforced, but I think everybody will agree that this is being done with a somewhat more harsh interpretation than they have been for a very long time.

I know it must be frustrating, me being one of the people calling for something to be done and then complaining later, but I do honestly think things have been taken too far in the opposite direction. I am not convinced this new focus and intensity of moderation is necesarily targetting the problems in the mudpit.

It should be an unusual occurance to find somebody applying to the tribunal for off-topic posting... I mean, at least in my opinion. Surely, I would think that for a moderator to need to take action in that vein somebody would really have to be spamming to the point of causing disruption... but I do not think the examples of the tribunal reflects that.

I am also concerned over the rule that mentions that referring to other members is forbidden. I am sorry, but this is bizarre. It is perfectly possible to refer to other members in a civil fashion, and some times it is necesary. It is the bias, the racism, the nationalism, the paranoia of certain members that is causing so much trouble recently - and now we cannot refer to these flaws (politely) in the context of what they post and argue? I am sorry, but I find this most contentious of all.

I am aware that this may not necesarily find much support but I do think that the debate forum rules, now over three years old, need replacing. Hopefully we can update it to contain a few, short, simple rules which will nonetheless help the moderators manage the mudpit without counter-productive hunts for minor "off-topic" digressions. With that in mind!

Proposed by Ferrets54,
Supported by Garbarsardar, Jimkatalanos, Ummon

Debate Forum Rules

Here are the rules of conduct that all users must abide by in order to participate in any discussion in the Political Mudpit.

This forum is only for the discussion of issues of politics, national policy, and international relations only; including those issues that may be driven by current events that are determined by the moderators to fall into primarily these areas of discussion. Religious, Moral, Ethical, Philosophical and Historical should be restricted to other forums. Moderators can move topics to more appropriate forums.

Topics that have resulted in heated discussion may be temporarily closed to provide a short cooling off or refocus period and to promote composed discussion without implying any prejudice or favoritism to any one side of the issue.

1) Debate in good faith and respect other members. Elaborate and further develop your arguments. Try to respond to other members' arguments. Do not continue to repeat the same arguments.

2) Address the argument, do not attack the person. Debates should be as detached and impersonal as possible.

3) Try to back up your arguments with evidence and sources where appropriate.

4) Do not post images or videos without some clear supporting text discussion. Posts with image or video trolls and other spam posting will be removed at the discretion of the moderators.

5) Avoid any form of misrepresentation. Do not state that something is fact or a well known fact just because you read it in a message board, website or blog. Statements made in blogs or amateur videos are not acceptable foundations for new threads.

6) Every thread must begin with some question or framework for the discussion you wish to initiate. You may not start a new discussion topic solely by posting a copy of an existing news story, image, quote from a web site, or other source information.

7) Plagiarism is generally frowned upon. If something is not your work, please clearly state the source.

In addition, the general forum rules apply.

Have fun and enjoy your discussions with fellow members of Total War Center.

It is based on the original one. I have removed items that I felt were already covered by the ToS or moderating policy, such as the paragraph concerning threads criticising moderators in the mudpit. I don't think it needs to be stated here that it is not permitted.

Rules 4 and 5 I hope will help the moderators improve the mudpit.

As always I am an idiot and await the idea to be improved.

[Garbarsardar]

Debate Forum Rules

Here are the rules of conduct that all users must abide by in order to participate in any discussion in the Political Mudpit.

This forum is only for the discussion of issues of politics, national policy, and international relations only; including those issues that may be driven by current events that are determined by the moderators to fall into primarily these areas of discussion. Religious, Moral, Ethical, Philosophical and Historic should be restricted to other forums. Moderators can move topics to more appropriate forums.

Topics that have resulted in heated discussion may be temporarily closed to provide a short cooling off or refocus period and to promote composed discussion without implying any prejudice or favoritism to any one side of the issue.

1) Debate in good faith and respect other members. Elaborate and further develop your arguments. Try to respond to other members' arguments. Do not continue to repeat the same arguments.

2) Address the argument, do not attack the person. Debates should be as detached and impersonal as possible.

3) Try to back up your arguments with evidence and sources where appropriate.

4) Do not post images or videos without some clear supporting text discussion. Posts with image or video trolls and other spam posting will be removed at the discretion of the moderators.

5) Avoid any form of misrepresentation. Do not state that something is fact or a well known fact just because you read it in a message board, website or blog. Statements made in blogs or amateur videos are not acceptable foundations for new threads.

6) Every thread must begin with some question or framework for the discussion you wish to initiate. You may not start a new discussion topic solely by posting a copy of an existing news story, image, quote from a web site, or other source information.

7) Plagiarism is generally frowned upon. If something is not your work, please clearly state the source.

Have fun and enjoy your discussions with fellow members of Total War Center.

In addition, the general forum rules apply.

I added one more but I could live without it too.

Good idea!

[jimkatalanos]

Debate Forum Rules

Here are the rules of conduct that all users must abide by in order to participate in any discussion in the Political Mudpit.

This forum is only for the discussion of issues of politics, national policy, and international relations only; including those issues that may be driven by current events that are determined by the moderators to fall into primarily these areas of discussion. Religious, Moral, Ethical, Philosophical and Historic should be restricted to other forums. Moderators can move topics to more appropriate forums.

Topics that have resulted in heated discussion may be temporarily closed to provide a short cooling off or refocus period and to promote composed discussion without implying any prejudice or favoritism to any one side of the issue.

1) Debate in good faith and respect other members. Elaborate and further develop your arguments. Try to respond to other members' arguments. Do not continue to repeat the same arguments.

2) Address the argument, do not attack the person. Debates should be as detached and impersonal as possible.

3) Try to back up your arguments with evidence and sources where appropriate.

4) Do not post images or videos without some clear supporting text discussion. Posts with image or video trolls and other spam posting will be removed at the discretion of the moderators.

5) Avoid any form of misrepresentation. Do not state that something is fact or a well known fact just because you read it in a message board, website or blog. Statements made in blogs or amateur videos are not acceptable foundations for new threads.

6) Every thread must begin with some question or framework for the discussion you wish to initiate. You may not start a new discussion topic solely by posting a copy of an existing news story, image, quote from a web site, or other source information.

7) Plagiarism is generally frowned upon. If something is not your work, please clearly state the source.

Have fun and enjoy your discussions with fellow members of Total War Center.

In addition, the general forum rules apply.

I added one more but I could live without it too.

Good idea!

I support.

[Ummon]

The problem with debate rules is that they can be enforced only if the moderator is more clever in recognizing fallacies/ad hominems/other tricks than the poster in hiding them.

I know more that one poster using this as a way to elude moderation.

This is intended to mean: whatever the rules, there's always an escape.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Oh apostrophe, my constant foe.

Updated to include Garb's additions/corrections of Sibs' shocking spelling errors. Bad Sibs.

[Garbarsardar]

Oh apostrophe, my constant foe.

Updated to include Garb's additions/corrections of Sibs' shocking spelling errors. Bad Sibs.

He was young.

And I think the two last lines should be inversed:

In addition, the general forum rules apply.

Have fun and enjoy your discussions with fellow members of Total War Center.

there is a tBP in me, I know it now.

[jimkatalanos]

Yeah, inverse the two last lines. It will look better.

There is a tBP in all of us.

[Ummon]

There is a tBP in all of us.

Off-topic, but worrisome comment nonetheless.

In any case, as to the new rules, supported if they seem useful to you.

[Garbarsardar]

Yeah, inverse the two last lines. It will look better.

There is a tBP in all of us.

The obvious question is: how deep?

someone shut me up please

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

The obvious question is: how deep?

someone shut me up please

and so I'm not just wasting a post...um..support.

[Garnier]

I support

[aja5191]

This is a great idea.

Supportus maximus.

[Leonidas The Lion]

I also support

[Dayman]

I support. Lets enforce these instead of just the off topic rule all the time now.

[Denny Crane!]

I have no problem with this. Support. I must say though that rules weren't exactly the problem, at first it was a complete absence of moderators beyond one or two dedicated members. The brief and very unpopular period of extremely harsh moderating wasn't successful really except in the most limited of scopes and is no longer being done.

I will quote HorseArcher when he says, it is purely and simply a lack of moderators and moderator activity.

That being said Sibs version was really long and I prefer this, whether this would actually change moderating practice or posting practice. Personally on that score I don't.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Fair enough, but not harm in dusting the cobwebs off this old rule thread (I mean... it predates youtube).

[eventhorizen]

Support.

Seems a few of the not so bad apples were bruised in this shakeup.

To be honest, it is my opinion that there is much left to be done. Specific discussion and debate forums are a real mess.

What else can be done?

[removeduser_487563287433]

This is now long since read to go to vote.

[Denny Crane!]

Does it need a vote? I'm curious as to the curia mandate? Being somewhat ignorant of the propietries, does it require it?

I suspected it didn't?

[Banned]

In case it needs the support of a CdeC member.