BC PATCH 1.05: Unit and Faction Balance Thread

[Lupu]

Because imbalance cant be discussed in the bug thread I open one here!

Can you highen the price of Ghazni's ghazi warriors? I havnt tested enough to say about others, but those are a good medium for 180 dinarii!

[Miraj]

Yep, Ghazis Warriors are far too cheap for a unit as powerful as that.

[Ahiga]

Swore I fixed that. :hmmm:

[Achilla]

Yep, Ghazis Warriors are far too cheap for a unit as powerful as that.

After several tests I must say Ghazi Warriors(48) are only good on paper. Literally, for my test I used simple skirmish - one army of Ghazi against Indian swordsmen(60). They get overwhelmed, killing just 23 soldiers of indian army.
When I turned sides and played as Rajputs, when I defeated Ghazi ... I got HEROIC VICTORY. Seems like Ghazi Warriors are better in auto-calc and suck in real battle. Strange.

Further, more troops of ghazi warriors against ind. swordsmen would propably rout them and own, while ind. swordsmen defending in town with moral boost provided give no chance for ghazi warriors to capture it, not sure it was intended ... but speaking on balance, in skirmish situations they should apply too.

I'd like to say that their cost ain't too high, waiting entire 5 turns for troop to come up and be able to recruit suck.

Just tested jungle battle, same set up.
ghazi warrior vs indian swordsmen = defeat (0/49 and 34/61)
indian swordsmen vs ghazi warrior = win (11/61 and 0/49)

Does AI get any bonuses in battle just because it's AI ? Tested on medium <> something isn't right for sure.

Native Rajputs spear units seem to hold out very good in melee too. Their stats don't really say it.

[B]Just found out what was wrong. Ghazi warriors have relatively weak charge due to "impetuous" morale, they can't hold a line and fight not that well, plus they are outnumbered and have no chance on desert maps due to ind. swordsmen bonus. Still, it should win forest/snow area ... got owned there, too. As I see no reason why light infantry should bash heavy infantry?

[Miraj]

You did... it was even cheaper before.

[Qarama]

i hired Kypchak mercenaries for 70 dinars in the Caucasus (i'm Seljuqs) is this normal?

[Ahiga]

I don't think so. We need to adjust the rates of all mercenary costs.

Questions to those playing:

• How are Spearmen in fighting enemy swordsmen? Enemy AP Infantry? Enemy Cavalry? Is having a defensive line simply sit there and let the enemy break on them more difficult?
• How are Swordsmen against Spearmen? AP Infantry? Do they really suffer when hit by charging cavalry?
• How are 2 handers? How are you using them and are they effective at that job?
• Whose making the most kills in your army

[Rodrico Stak]

I don't think so. We need to adjust the rates of all mercenary costs.

Questions to those playing:

• How are Spearmen in fighting enemy swordsmen? Enemy AP Infantry? Enemy Cavalry? Is having a defensive line simply sit there and let the enemy break on them more difficult?
• How are Swordsmen against Spearmen? AP Infantry? Do they really suffer when hit by charging cavalry?
• How are 2 handers? How are you using them and are they effective at that job?
• Whose making the most kills in your army

2. My Indian Swordsmen cut through the enemy light spearmen (Daylami Light Spearmen), and Hindu Archers like butter, as they are supposed to.
4. Elephants, but that's hardly a surprise, is it?

[illuminati2025]

I don't think so. We need to adjust the rates of all mercenary costs.

Questions to those playing:

• How are Spearmen in fighting enemy swordsmen? Enemy AP Infantry? Enemy Cavalry? Is having a defensive line simply sit there and let the enemy break on them more difficult?
• How are Swordsmen against Spearmen? AP Infantry? Do they really suffer when hit by charging cavalry?
• How are 2 handers? How are you using them and are they effective at that job?
• Whose making the most kills in your army

To answer that:

My armoured sergeants usually prevail against any swordsmen as KoJ. They destroy any cavalry (suicidal generals are still a problem occassionally). Letting them charge a spearwall, my armoured sergeants will prevail against most anything.

Most kills: My heavy cavalry has decided every battle. I keep a few mounted sergeants around to take care of the bowmen that my guards and knights can't catch. I usually have half infantry/half cavalry (i don't use missiles). with a full stack i can usually defeat, though with 30%+ casualties, two full enemy stacks

[Fenix_120]

To answer that:

My armoured sergeants usually prevail against any swordsmen as KoJ. They destroy any cavalry (suicidal generals are still a problem occassionally). Letting them charge a spearwall, my armoured sergeants will prevail against most anything.

Most kills: My heavy cavalry has decided every battle. I keep a few mounted sergeants around to take care of the bowmen that my guards and knights can't catch. I usually have half infantry/half cavalry (i don't use missiles). with a full stack i can usually defeat, though with 30%+ casualties, two full enemy stacks

Well first of all, their is very little that can charge a wall of highly trained, well equipped and disciplined men and live.

Secondly they are one of the best spear units in the game (Perhaps coming in at 3)

Mameluk axemen and dismounted Tawashis can usually take armored sergeants.

[Lupu]

Imabalance is best noticed with MP battles.

[the42up]

more of a strategy map balance issue

Are the rajputs not supposed to be able to train merchants?

[Armatus]

I will say cav is prefect in multiplayer battles although I haven't tested every faction so far. The prices seem right to prevent exploiting heavy cav.

[Zephrelial]

My only small complaint about the unit prices,and anything related to that is that there are only 4 free upkeep units in the whole roster of all the factions..
This is no big deal and realistic since just for a unit to be garrisoned in a city doesn't necessarily mean that it has to have free upkeep..

But it's something new for a cheapskate such as myself. No big deal.

[Lupu]

I also think cav is perfect.
But how id the BC team do things with archers? That balance rocks! Archers are no killers that mean archer duel, like in kingdoms, kill actually less than in 1.3 but still they are in a way really effective and archers are nearly must for all armies!

Imbalance: Ghulam horse archers and junior ghulam horse archers, junior cost nearly 400 less than normal and have better stats in all exept missile(very small difference), charge(very small too) and morale.
and the dismounted Monaspa acrhers to expensive!

[anaztazioch]

Ghulam horse archers and juniors can have differant rojectiles (accuracy).

Shield wall imballance. My Heavy Daylami (or what ever are those Kwarezm javnelin heavy infantries) and their "softer" version under shield wall can knock of 2 Mongolian Khans Guards(2 units not 2 riders in 1 unit) and remain alive.

[Miraj]

Shield wall is definitely very much an exploit during sieges. We will see if we can make it a bit weaker.

[the42up]

what exactly does shield wall do?

[kepper]

In my first camping it ERE, just some turns after the campaign star, my fronter region it the Turkish Sultanate of Rum get invade by two full army's of horse arches , but if remember they are not there, in the first turn.
I as force to give up the camping, i don´t i army to face two army at the same time, and full of horse arches, you better put some more different tip of unit´s in the armies. To give a change to the player in control of ERE to resist the invasion.
This time, i have made a alliance it the Turkish Sultanate of Rum, i am save but after rebel have gone the fun will beginning.

[Aethelred]

I'm playing Abbasid Caliphate and after a few turns (about 10), my income in Baghdad is greater than 10,000. Most of it comes from trade with Seljuks, I guess, as there's a huge wagon traffic on the road leading to Seljuk territory. Anyway, this income is really huge and I just cannot spend all that money. Is it like that on purpose?