Faction - Kingdom of Hungary

[vilil]

In wouldn't go so far as to call them frauds, the article he posted established that they have existed since them. The images were just misleading... and what do we know of them. i have heard them mentioned but what solid knowledge do we have concerning the order's influence during the 14th century.

Well, I could write something, it doesn't mean that it is true. If you dont have historycal documents to confirm your words, it isn't historycaly acurate. There is a lot so called "orders" formed just to collect some money for "charity", donations, or simmilar. Where is document of founding that order?
There is a hundreds-thousends web sites about some knight orders, but that doesn't mean they are historycal orders.
Again, if you dont have relevant document to confirm your words, not some "copy" from 400-500yrs later, it cant be historycal.
Even if you Google a little, you can't find any relevant info about that order.
P.S. Where is that city Viso(e)grad in Hungary, where this order is founded? Was it some important city for HU at that time?

[Cimbye]

thx István szelleme but how can I make spoilers? :hmmm:



vilil here you are the founding document (from 1326)


And Here is visegrád(and was important castle)

[vilil]

@Cimbye
Thank you. Can you tell me what is the name of that document, and where I can find it?

[Cimbye]

I don't know the name of this document it's in latin XD in hungarian: Szent György lovegrend alapítólevele. And you can't find relevant info about that order because you don't speak Hungarian

[Tzar]

For spoiler please use:

[*spoiler] TEXT [*/spoiler]

without *

Thanks

[vilil]

@Cimbye
Yeah, I found it in a Wiki.
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kép:A_S...-éről.jpg
So what is about this? Is it in some museum?

[Cimbye]

For spoiler please use:

[*spoiler] TEXT [*/spoiler]

without *

Thanks

Ok Tzar

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

THANKS

[Cimbye]

This document I think in the Visegrád palace

The Legal Status of the Knightly Order of Saint George

The Knightly Order of Saint George has been founded properly from the point of view of both the canon and the secular law, its foundations has never been annulled and its lawful existence has never ceased. The period of its inactivity ended in 1990, when - by the decision of learned historians and archaeologists - it started functioning again. Its constitution has been created keeping its old mentality but corresponding to the requirements of the end of the 20th century by the reorganisers. The ceremony of the creation of knights after a mass is performed with great solemnity in the Grand Hall of the Visegrád Royal Palace, where the Order was founded in 1326. It is God's special measure of grace that the members of the Order are able to live their communal life in the place of the foundation, in historical environment.

The reorganised Order was registered at the Pest County Court in the decision number 8.PK.5-61.007/1990 under the reference number Tsz.1007/1990. Its new computerised record number is TE 830/1990 and its serial number is 11007/90. The Order was declared organisation of public utility under the number 1. Pk.61007/1990/17 in 1996.

The recording of the Order at the Registry Court means legal defence concerning the use of the name. Besides this, the Knightly Order of Saint George is the right-holder of both the name and organisation. The Hungarian Patent Office has included in the patents No. 173 130 and 173 502 the following: the compound word 'the Knightly Order of Saint George', the coloured figured coat of arms of the Order, its seven-letter epigraph and its coloured figured insignia. The date of the beginning of its priority is 28 March 2001. All the absolute rights concerning the Knightly Order of Saint George can be exercised by the magistrate of the Order, working at H-2025 Visegrád, Fő u. 29. This is the place where the foundation was established. Thus the Order is an organic and inalienable part of the one-thousand-year historical heritage of Visegrád. (The historical town will celebrate its millennium in 2009.

The structure and spheres of activities of the Order are described in the CONSTITUTION OF THE ORDER and in the rules and regulation.

[vilil]

This document I think in the Visegrád palace

I couldn't find anything here-
http://www.museum.hu/museum/index_en.php?ID=559
What wiki say about it? On a link that I posted.

[Cimbye]

It says:
1326. April on 24, on saint György day Károly Róbert king Boleszló made the statute of the order public in an Esztergom archbishop's and the Hungarian episcopal arm's presence in Visegrád, but the order was founded early with 3 years according to single researchers. The knights secular and church services were supplied equally. The protection of the Christianity stemmed from their church task, the insurance of the light of the holidays, the weak ones, the needy and the protection of fallen ones, his support.
They protected the safety of the characters of the king and the household, they protected the holy crown of Hungary transported into the Visegrád citadel in 1323, they supplied the king's accompaniment and the check of the rules on knightly gymnastics beside this.
The constitution of the order in 1990 in an old ghost, but the 20. century it was resumed according to end requirements. The order of knighthood is active in more areas:
tradition nursing, inside this the celebration of the historical anniversaries, the promotion of the mediaeval researches and his publishing; education, the organization of scientific gatherings; spiritual care; the collection of gifts and aids.

[\Vazul's Ghost/]

Ok so first of all...

@ Vilil: when I said the article established their existence I meant through its listings of various historians throughout history who have studied and verfied their existence. I had a hiungarian relation who was a classical linguist read the articel and he said it was valid, although he has pissed off somewhere now and I can't quote him, it doesn't really matter. There is proof that the order existed, what is the main thing in question is how influential they were, not if they existed.
@ Cimbye: You have provided lots of info concerning the orders modern exploits but that is unfortunately irelevant to the mod and its timeframe. Do you have any information (backed up with sources) concerning how influential they were. Are they listed in taxation records, papal documents, chronicles and the many vienese enlightened tomes from the approximate (50 years) time frame of the mod? if so provide please, as you have given great info before and I and I'm sure the modders and other viewers would like to find out more relevant information.

Focusing on this one docuiment any more is needles in terms of the mod.

[vilil]

Hi again!
Wnat do we know about this order!? Let's see. Founded in 1326. by King, and the Order died with King. OK, but, was he the only member? If not, who were the others?
In "History of the Order" it says:
"Visograd, Hungary - The Knightly Order of St. George was founded in the presence of King Karoly Robert of Hungary (d. 1342), his Cardinals and Bishops, and the Laws of The Order where established."

After that it says:
"Emperor Frigyes (Frederic) appointed his Cardinal Siberhite Janos, as Grand Master of The Order and naming the Knights of Saint George above all other Knights as "Knights of the Crown"

But if we look here:http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13350a.htm

It clearly says that Order was FOUNDED by Emperor Frederic III.

And if it was realy founded in presence of Cardinals and Bishops, how come that in Catholic encyclopedia noone mention that event!?
And if it was founded in PRESENCE of King Karoly, WHO found it?

[Csatádi]

The new king is really great!

There is no info about this order only its foundation. It may provide a good shield pattern (strifes with the inscription) but nothing else.
Similar like Sigismund's Dragon Order.

[Cimbye]

Vazul here you are http://www.szentkoronaradio.com/node/11038 i hope you speak hungarian

[\Vazul's Ghost/]

unfortunately I don't speak much HUngarian... but I'm learning.
Thanks though!

[\Vazul's Ghost/]

HOOZAH! (is that how you spell it:hmmm
At last my long search for good images of hungarian soldiers of the period of the mod has come to an end, thanks to the magnificent Cimbye, who posted these images on the Rise of Empires forum a while back. So here are five images of hungarian, moldavian, cuman, bosnian, byzantine, albanian and croatian soldiers:
1:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

2:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

3:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

4:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

5:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hope it helps!

[The_Bulgar_Slayer]

Very good pics!!! (and you did spell Huzzah right )

[Mediteran]

will hungary be able to recruit croatian units in croatian cities?

[The_Bulgar_Slayer]

will hungary be able to recruit croatian units in croatian cities?

There will definitely be some Croatian units available for Hungary and probably as mercenaries. Matko has been making some excellent Croatian units for another mod, and we'll have some here as well.

[Romano-Dacis]

Upon Vazul's request, we will discuss the possible inclusion of Wallachian/Moldavian regional units in Transylvania in this thread as opposed to the Wallachia thread. Transylvania will be a part of the AoR for all 3 factions (Wallachia, Hungary, Moldova), the big decision is to what extent will units be recruitable there.

My personal opinion is that Wallachia and Moldova should not be able to recruit high-level units or nobility (considering the Vlach nobility was pretty much liquidated by the 15th century) from Transylvania. We could have one, maybe two regional units for both the factions to represent the divide of Western feudalism/free peasant societies that existed between the Kingdom of Hungary Wallachia/Moldova.

Of course, I am very much in favor of having Szecklers recruitable for all 3 factions from this region (as szecklers did fight in all 3 armies e.g. Battle of Vaslui).