TTW Campaign map

[Vict0r_1984]

What about Mongols? They can own only a little territory in the east, and have the strongest army after the Turks. The rest of the factions will try to resist agaist this two factions or advance together in their country.
We can also make France a strong faction when they come, cause they have won the 100 years war not much time after the game will end.

[The_Bulgar_Slayer]

France and the Timurids will be hordes when they come, and yes they should be relatively strong.

[Vict0r_1984]

And They will be able to coquer cities and castles to expand their empire, or not? We will see french or timurid agents also in the map, or just armies after they come?
The emerging factions don`t have their forum so the people can have much questions about them.

[The_Bulgar_Slayer]

They will be like the Mongols and Timurids in the vanilla game. They will be able to conquer cities and make agents. In fact, they will probably have the same unit rosters in the first release as they did in vanilla due to our time restrictions. France will probably want to conquer Italy while the Timurids will be after Anatolia.

[Vict0r_1984]

The 2 regions from Crimeea and its north will be rebel, right? Or it will exist russia or Mongols who will control them.

[il_duce_!]

As far as I am concerned those Crimea and Ukraine (Kiev) regions could be controled by Mongols. But, Im not sure if they actually were in that period (1345.).

For now, they are controlled by the rebel forces. BTW, that region map isnt finished, thats something like v0.1. So dont be surprised if I add more regions (and I certainly will).

[\Vazul's Ghost/]

Crimea was the last of the mongol Khanates that succeded the Golden Horde, surviving into the 18th century. They operated largely as pirates and raiders into the Ukraine area.

[speedyvm]

I think you should add some mongol hordes too, they were very influent in this period in balcans too.
Attachment 12001 (source: Osprey Military- Men at Arms series- The Mongols)

At least add 2 armies of those 2 generals - Jebe and Subadai.

[Romano-Dacis]

I think we were debating this in the dev section, something about whether the Tatars would be their own faction or we would make Moldavia instead, and we voted on Moldavia, since the Tatars were, as Vazul correctly put it, raiders. They fought a lot with the Hungarians, but more so with the Poles, Lithuanians, and Moldavians, and remained there pretty much throughout the entire time span, but they were not capable of posing a serious threat, and even had trouble subduing the Cossacks in Ukraine, so placing them as a faction wouldn't give the right representation. We'll most likely have them as powerful rebel armies, which will prevent Moldavia from performing some sort of Eastern land-grab.

[speedyvm]

I think we were debating this in the dev section, something about whether the Tatars would be their own faction or we would make Moldavia instead, and we voted on Moldavia, since the Tatars were, as Vazul correctly put it, raiders. They fought a lot with the Hungarians, but more so with the Poles, Lithuanians, and Moldavians, and remained there pretty much throughout the entire time span, but they were not capable of posing a serious threat, and even had trouble subduing the Cossacks in Ukraine, so placing them as a faction wouldn't give the right representation. We'll most likely have them as powerful rebel armies, which will prevent Moldavia from performing some sort of Eastern land-grab.

Yes, I was sayings that the presence of the Mongols (Tatars) as a emerging faction would be more interesting, at first place that they would be a good ally to Ottoman Empire. These 2 armies driven of Jube and Subadai (historical speaking-2 armies formed of 4 tumens, one tumen=10000 men) were defeated by Prince of Kiev (having an army of 80000 men) in year 1223.
The real Mongol invasion of Europe (1237-1242), after the defeating of Volga Bulgars and Kipchaks (autumn 1237), Russians were crushed too(city of Vladimir winter 1237, Moscow fell in 1238, Kiev in 1240), Polish, even an army of Teutonic Order, I don't know about Lithuanins. They invaded Hungary with success, in 1242 they were on their way to Vienna, but they were called back to chose another successor Khan (they say that Khan Ogedei's death saved the Europe).
I think this invasion shouldn't be neglected, adding them as a rebel faction would be make them weaker, even if historical speaking (1237-1242) they weren't defetead.

[The_Bulgar_Slayer]

The mod starts in 1345, long after the Mongol Empire had broken up. The Golden Horde is too big to fit on our map, and we have filled all the faction slots, so rebel armies will have to do. The Mongols will be represented by those rebels and by the Timurids when they emerge as a horde.

[Silesian_Noble]

Polish, even an army of Teutonic Order,

You are not precise here. There was no Teutonic army fighting against Mongol invasion. There was a contingent of Teutonic Knights sent as a support for Poles and they fought under Polish command of Silesian prince – Henryk II in the battle of Legnica (Leignitz). Though Teutons in Polish coalition were minority - the core of army was Polish. Battle of Legnica itself was very unfortunate. It was almost won by the Poles (what is recorded in Mongolian Chronicles) despite the fact that Mongols outnumbered Poles, but during the battle the contingent of Mieszko Otyły from Opole turned to be coward traitor and even being on the battlefield did not join the battle, but run away in the key moment of the battle what caused Polish defeat. Also Poland was cheated by Bohemian ally, who send an army to support Poles, but they slowed down their march by purpose so the Poles stood against Mongols alone… Poles after this battle lost their ruler and fall into feudal anarchy - traitor Bohemian used that to grab Silesian province from Poland. Sad true

[speedyvm]

The mod starts in 1345, long after the Mongol Empire had broken up. The Golden Horde is too big to fit on our map, and we have filled all the faction slots, so rebel armies will have to do. The Mongols will be represented by those rebels and by the Timurids when they emerge as a horde.

My bad here, sorry. Maybe in the future, when you release another version of TTW you will be able to add The Golden Horde a faction (I am sure that they existed after 1345-when this mod starts- as a strong political stat). Also I am sure that they will fit well in this mod. Expending the campaign map to the est would be a great idea, also teritories of Ottoman Empire isn't complete too.

You are not precise here. There was no Teutonic army fighting against Mongol invasion. There was a contingent of Teutonic Knights sent as a support for Poles and they fought under Polish command of Silesian prince – Henryk II in the battle of Legnica (Leignitz). Though Teutons in Polish coalition were minority - the core of army was Polish. Battle of Legnica itself was very unfortunate. It was almost won by the Poles (what is recorded in Mongolian Chronicles) despite the fact that Mongols outnumbered Poles, but during the battle the contingent of Mieszko Otyły from Opole turned to be coward traitor and even being on the battlefield did not join the battle, but run away in the key moment of the battle what caused Polish defeat. Also Poland was cheated by Bohemian ally, who send an army to support Poles, but they slowed down their march by purpose so the Poles stood against Mongols alone… Poles after this battle lost their ruler and fall into feudal anarchy - traitor Bohemian used that to grab Silesian province from Poland. Sad true

Well, a small army of Teutonic Knights or not, they were defeated.

[Silesian_Noble]

You didn’t get the essence. There was no Teutonic army against Mongols. Teutons were a part of Polish army that fought against Mongols, not a separate army that operates itself.

[The Noble Lord]

You didn’t get the essence. There was no Teutonic army against Mongols. Teutons were a part of Polish army that fought against Mongols, not a separate army that operates itself.

Hi,


According to my research thats true.
Teutons fought against the Mongols as a part of the Polish army.



CHEERS

[speedyvm]

You didn’t get the essence. There was no Teutonic army against Mongols. Teutons were a part of Polish army that fought against Mongols, not a separate army that operates itself.

Well, the essence is that they fought against many people and they defeated them, allmost all. The question is: are they important or not? I belive that they are, my opinion.

[Silesian_Noble]

Frankly Teutons alongside Poland lost the battle of Legnica with Mongols. They also lost the largest battle of their own history – of Grunwald (Tannenbeg). The battle of Koronowo, the battle of Świecino and the battle of Płowce all with Poland all lost by Teutons – especially the first two are important – Teutons lost despite having twice as much larger army. So I wouldn’t say they defeated almost all their opponents

[speedyvm]

[quote=speedyvm;3205153]Well, the essence is that they fought against many people and they defeated them, allmost all. The question is: are they important or not? I belive that they are, my opinion.quote]

Frankly Teutons alongside Poland lost the battle of Legnica with Mongols. They also lost the largest battle of their own history – of Grunwald (Tannenbeg). The battle of Koronowo, the battle of Świecino and the battle of Płowce all with Poland all lost by Teutons – especially the first two are important – Teutons lost despite having twice as much larger army. So I wouldn’t say they defeated almost all their opponents

Hey man, I was talking about the Mongols, not Teutons.

[Silesian_Noble]

Allright then When it come to Mongols, I also think they should be in, but not as Mongols, but as Tatars.

[The_Bulgar_Slayer]

We looked at adding the Golden Horde, but they are too large to fit on the map. The Crimean Tartars were not around for over 100 years after the start of the mod. It seems the best compromise is to have the cities under control of the Golden horde be powerful rebel cities with many Mongol/Tartar units. Keep in mid of course that the Mongoliod Timurids will be a horde faction apearing fairly early in the game in Anatolia.