Pikes

[Exarch]

any1 got any ideas how to use pikes/terces in combination with muskets?
i know they employed something like that in italian history, but i dont know how this formation moved around the battlefield.
pikes are slow as heck

[Sher Khan]

Personally, I play defensively when using pikemen and gunpowder.


I would form a strong line of pikemen in defensive position and in front of them (or even in the middle of their front line, safe behind the pikewall, I string my gunners two ranks deep. They fire from relative safety and force the enemy to charge my solid pikewall. I then proceed to move up swordsmen to support the pikemen while I swing around and flank.

[Lord Gothmog]

There are several formations that have been used with Pike and Shot.

The Pike Square:

A pike square generally consisted of about 100 men in a 10×10 formation. While on the move, the pike would be carried vertically. However, the troops were drilled to be able to point their pikes in any direction while stationary, with the men in the front of the formation kneeling to allow the men in the center or back to point their pikes over their heads. While stationary, the staff of each pike could be butted against the ground, giving it resistance against attack. Squares could be joined together to form a battle line. If surrounded, pikes could still be pointed in all directions. A well drilled square could turn on a penny, making it difficult to outmaneuver on horseback.

The Spanish Tercio:

Within the tercio, ranks of pikemen arrayed themselves together into one large block (cuadro), similar to a pike square. The musketeers were usually split up in several mobile groups (mangas) and deployed relative to the cuadro, typically with one manga at each corner.[citation needed] By virtue of this combined-arms approach, the formation simultaneously enjoyed both the rigidity of its heavy infantry, along with its inherent ability to repulse cavalry and other units along its front, and the long-range firepower of its musketeers—which could also be easily reorganized to the flanks, making it an near-ideal defensive and offensive formation for the technology of the era.

Groups of tercios were typically arrayed in dragon-toothed (staggered—the leading edge of one unit even with the trailing edge of the preceding unit; see similar hedgehog defense concept) which enabled enfilade lines of fire and defiladed somewhat the army units themselves— odd units alternating with even units, respectively one forward and one back providing gaps for an unwary enemy to enter andenfilade itself where it would encounter the combined direct and raking cross fire from the three tericos gunners.

The Infantry Square

The formation (as used in the Napoleonic Wars) took the form of a hollow square, or sometimes a rectangle, with each side composed of two or more ranks of soldiers armed with single-shot muskets or rifles with fixed bayonets. Generally, a battalion (approx. 500 to 1,000 men) was the smallest force used to form a square. The unit's colors and commander were positioned in the center, along with a reserve force to reinforce any side of the square weakened by attacks. A square of 500 men in four ranks, such as those formed by Wellington's army at Waterloo, was a tight formation less than twenty metres in length upon any side.

Once formed in square, the infantry would volley fire at approaching cavalry, either by file or by rank. In successful actions, the infantry would often withhold fire until the charging horses and men were some 30 meters from the square; the resulting casualties to the attackers would eventually form piles of dead and wounded horses and their riders which would obstruct further attacks.

Examples:

M = Musketeers (any missile unit)
P = Pike (any infantry unit)
HC = Heavy Calvery
GG = General
CC = Cannons (any artillery)
AA = Archers (any missile units other than rifles)

The Pike Square.
----------MMMMMMM---MMMMMMMMMM---MMMMMMM
----------MMMMMMM---MMMMMMMMMM---MMMMMMM

----------PPPPPPPPPP-----PPPPPPPPPP-----PPPPPPPPPP
----------PPPPPPPPPP-----PPPPPPPPPP-----PPPPPPPPPP
----------PPPPPPPPPP-----PPPPPPPPPP-----PPPPPPPPPP
----------PPPPPPPPPP-----PPPPPPPPPP-----PPPPPPPPPP

The Tercio.
-------MMMMM-----MMMMMMM-----MMMMM
-------MMMMM-----MMMMMMM-----MMMMM
-------MM-PPPPPPPPPP-PPPPPPPPPP-MM
-------MM-PPPPPPPPPP-PPPPPPPPPP-MM
-----------PPPPPPPPPP-PPPPPPPPPP
-----------PPPPPPPPPP-PPPPPPPPPP
-----------PPPPPPPPPP-PPPPPPPPPP
-----------PPPPPPPPPP-PPPPPPPPPP
-----------PPPPPPPPPP-PPPPPPPPPP
-----------PPPPPPPPPP-PPPPPPPPPP
-------MM-PPPPPPPPPP-PPPPPPPPPP-MM
-------MM-PPPPPPPPPP-PPPPPPPPPP-MM
-------MMMMM-----------------MMMMM
-------MMMMM-----------------MMMMM

Grand Tercio
MMMMMMMMM----------------------------------MMMMMMMMMM
MPPPPPPPPPPM----------------------------------MppppppppppM
MPP-------PPM----------------------------------Mpp-------ppM
MPP-------PPM----------------------------------Mpp-------ppM
MPPPPPPPPPPM----------------------------------MppppppppppM
MMMMMMMMM----------------------------------MMMMMMMMMM
-------------MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
-------------MPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPM
-------------MPP------------------------------PPM
-------------MPP------------------------------PPM
-------------MPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPM
-------------MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMMM-----------------------------------MMMMMMMMM
MPPPPPPPPPPM----------------------------------MppppppppppM
MPP-------PPM----------------------------------Mpp-------ppM
MPP-------PPM----------------------------------Mpp-------ppM
MPPPPPPPPPPM----------------------------------MppppppppppM
MMMMMMMMM-----------------------------------MMMMMMMMM

The Infantry Square.

---------MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
---------MPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPM
---------MPPPP---------------PPPPM
---------MPPPP---------------PPPPM
---------MPPPP---------------PPPPM
---------MPPPP---------------PPPPM
---------MPPPP---------------PPPPM
---------MPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPM
---------MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Staggared dragons teeth.

MMMMMMMMM------------------MMMMMMMMM------------------MMMMMMMMM
MPPPPPPPPPPM------------------MPPPPPPPPPPM------------------MppppppppppM
MPP------PPM------------------MPP------PPM------------------Mpp------ppM
MPP------PPM------------------MPP------PPM------------------Mpp------ppM
MPPPPPPPPPPM------------------MPPPPPPPPPPM----------------------MppppppppppM
MMMMMMMMM------------------MMMMMMMMM------------------MMMMMMMMM
------------------MMMMMMMMM---------------------MMMMMMMMM
------------------MPPPPPPPPPPM---------------------MPPPPPPPPPPM
------------------MPP------PPM----------------------MPP------PPM
------------------MPP------PPM----------------------MPP------PPM
------------------MPPPPPPPPPPM---------------------MPPPPPPPPPPM
------------------MMMMMMMMM---------------------MMMMMMMMMM

These formations are hard to make work in MTW II, but I have used some varents to some success. Keep in mind that you can replace all pikemen with any sort of infantry in a pinch. Keep the few pikemen you have pointed to the front, use spearment for the sides and heavy infantry for the rear. Use the heavy infantry to swing around and flank any enemy heavy infantry - just keep an eye on the enemy heavy calvary.

A lot of times I will replace most of my musketeers with archers or xbos. They can shoot out of th squares better in the game.

My MTW II Varents.

Grand Tercio.

-----MMMMMMMMM------------------------------------MMMMMMMMM
-----MPPPPPPPPPPM-----------------------------------MppppppppppM
-----MPP-------PPM-----------------------------------Mpp-------ppM
-----MPP-------PPM-----------------------------------Mpp-------ppM
-----MPPPPPPPPPPM-----------------------------------MppppppppppM
-----------------MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
-----------------PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
-----------------PP----------------------------------PP
-----------------PP----------------------------------PP
HC---------------PP------------GG----------------PP--------------HC

Staggared Dragons teeth.

-------MMMMMMMMM---------------------------------MMMMMMMMM
-------MPPPPPPPPPPM---------------------------------MPPPPPPPPPM
-------MPP-------PPM---------------------------------MPP------PPM
-------MPP-------PPM---------------------------------MPP------PPM
-------MPPPPPPPPPPM---------------------------------MPPPPPPPPPPM
-------MMMMMMMMM---------------------------------MMMMMMMMM
-----------------------------MMMMMMMMMM
------------------------------MPPPPPPPPPPM
-----------------------------MPP--------PPM
----------------------------MPP----G-----PPM
---------------------------MPP------------PPM
HC----------------------MPP---CC---CC----PPM----------------------HC

Infantry Square.

---------MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
---------MPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPM
---------MPPPP---------------PPPPM
---------MPPPP--AA-AA--AA--PPPPM
---------MPPPP---------------PPPPM
---------MPPPP--CC--G--CC--PPPPM
---------MPPPP---------------PPPPM
---------MPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPM
---------MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM------------------------HCHC

The infantry square has saved me many times from the Mongols, but there was always some heavy losses. I took down five full stacks during one turn with the same army and same square formation, but alas the sixth stack destroyed my poor brave lads. Lucky for me I routed and salvaged some of my units and my General.

When playing against another player online, do not forget to make a complete square and use your calvary to eliminate the enemy artillery. Artillery is deadly for compact formations.

Tip: If the enemy has lots of artillery AND have lots of horses, make your lines a bit thinner and longer to eliminate cannon damage. Keep a few back up units close by, but off the front line to reinforce later as needed.

[Shazbot]

Obviosuly, both of these units should be used defensively. When I use pikemen, I arrange them in the same checkardboard pattern that the Romans used. With musket units inbetween each pike unit, this provides a solid frontal defense and allows for the back pike units to move up when the gunpower units fall back.

[Exarch]

@lord gothmog

i notice u put all ur musketeers (missile troops) on the outside of the square
what happens when the cavalry charges the lines?
wouldnt it be safer to place them ins8ide, behind the pikemen?

[TwoScoopsOfViking]

@lord gothmog

i notice u put all ur musketeers (missile troops) on the outside of the square
what happens when the cavalry charges the lines?
wouldnt it be safer to place them ins8ide, behind the pikemen?

Wouldnt the pikemen get shot in the back of the head then? Due to game mechanics?

[Lord Gothmog]

i notice u put all ur musketeers (missile troops) on the outside of the square what happens when the cavalry charges the lines? wouldnt it be safer to place them ins8ide, behind the pikemen?

Wouldnt the pikemen get shot in the back of the head then? Due to game mechanics?

In real life the musketeers would skirmish, falling back into the protection of the pike line. Also the Spanish would have units of halberdeers amongst the musketeers to assist with their defense. In the game the mechanics are a bit strange as the musketeers must finish reloading before they can retreat making them very susceptible to calvary charges even when you micromanage them. Additionally the game makes the musketeers step back after each reload making the musketeers eventually fall back behind the pikes and shoot your own men - very irritating.

I place my musketeers right inside the pike line, the first two lines of musketeers standing in the forward line of pikes, just in front of the pikemen, but still behind the pike points. I place them on guard mode and remove fire at will, they seem to stay put a little bit better.

To be honest I find crossbow men more effective with their better armor, less chance of shooting the pike line and the ability to fall back behind the lines and shoot over the line when needed.

All formations still work well in game and can have devastating effects on calvary heavy armies. Add well placed artillery and a ribalt and watch the enemy fight for dear life just to keep his troop moral high enough to reach your lines.

----MMMMMMMMM-------------------------------------MMMMMMMMM
----MPPPPPPPPPPM------------------------------------MppppppppppM
----MPP-------PPM------------------------------------Mpp-------ppM
----MPP-------PPM------------------------------------Mpp-------ppM
----MPPPPPPPPPPM--CC------------RR-------------CC--MppppppppppM
-----------------MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
-----------------PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
-----------------PP----------------------------------PP
-----------------PP----------------------------------PP
HC--------------PP-------------GG-------------------PP---------------HC

One key point I forgot to make is the thickness of the pike line. When attacking keep your Pike men in a thick heavy group and when defending a line, keep the main area of attack thick and the areas of least attack thin.

[TwoScoopsOfViking]

Oh ok that makes sense. But I always used this


----------\********/---------- (\***/ = actively firing)
-----------mmmmmm------------musketeers firing
ppppppppp----------ppppppppppp


--------------------------------
----------\*******/-----------
pppppppppmmmmmmppppppppppp musketeers falling back


--------------------------------
-------ppppppppppppppppp------
----------mmmmmmmm---------- musketeers fall back behind pikemen, who fill the gap, musketeers then move to flank or fallback to reserve units in the rear

[Captain Spanky]

I think Exarch means that they should inside the pikes but in front of the pikemen, if that makes sense. Its certainly how I would do it.