Spoils of War

[Exarch]

title's self explanatory.
jsut how legitimate are spoils taken from war?
Ever since ancient history where Caesar's romans would pillage and loot the defeated with the same attitude as the Gaul Brennus: Vae Victus (woe to the vanquished) to the famous sack of constantinople of the 4th crusade, and even to present day iraq where american companies take the spoils of war in the form of lucrative oil and reconstruction deals; just how legitimate is the victor's claim to the defeated nation's riches?

Mind u, the taking of spoils has been a constant feature in all cultures at war. the roman empire it is said, derived much of its income from booty and plunder.....
now take the modern day, is it still legitamate for a victor nation to plunder the defeated nations' wealth?

Discuss

[Chaigidel]

the modern day; I would say no its not the same, and the old "take what you want" exists in all combat situations, but much less since the world wars.

[Burnum]

now take the modern day, is it still legitamate for a victor nation to plunder the defeated nations' wealth?

no, because that's a war crime.

[hellheaven1987]

now take the modern day, is it still legitamate for a victor nation to plunder the defeated nations' wealth?

Logically and personally it is yes; emotionally and morally it is no.

Unfortunately all the human law base on emotion and modern moral belief.

[Dunecat]

If you just participated in a war...

...Taking their belongings would probably also be acceptable.

[hellheaven1987]

Yes, and can someone point out why it is "wrong" in logic sense??

[Pontifex Maximus]

there are no spoils of war in the modern day. If there were, America would own the Middle East and Korea

[Exarch]

spoils of war in the modern sense would equate to, as i said lucrative reconstruction deals, as in iraq, or jsut simple plundering of the nation's bullion.
and the rapage of women i suppose would also count as a 'spoil of war'; as distasteful as it sounds, this is a prominent part of war.

[hellheaven1987]

spoils of war in the modern sense would equate to, as i said lucrative reconstruction deals, as in iraq, or jsut simple plundering of the nation's bullion.
and the rapage of women i suppose would also count as a 'spoil of war'; as distasteful as it sounds, this is a prominent part of war.

Modern Army stoped doing that because many leaders realized that it was not the best way for the grand strategy - you cannot leave an unstable real and hope to push further; besides, getting help from local population is definately a big advantage than your enemy; therefore, more and more military campaigns abandoned traditional sacking and plundering - to show mercy, good will and fear in hope to gain the trust and assistance from local population.

However, after sometimes most people forgot this fact, and assume army can never terrorize common people. The worse, this type of thinking is even including in modern moral sense, like showing kindness to conquering people are responsibility of army rather than a privilege. It creates quite some problems, such as gureilla warfare, human shield tactic or terrorism. Combine with the poor combat will of western countries, it turns out to be the greatest weakness of western military despite its brave soldiers and great technology.

[Exarch]

good points there hellheaven
altho, i doubt if all western troops follow such noble doctrines.
american and even UN troops have been reported of raping civilians...same with the foreign legion.
not to mention the constnat occasional reporting of an american soldier being deported back to the states for raping a japanese girl....

[hellheaven1987]

altho, i doubt if all western troops follow such noble doctrines.
american and even UN troops have been reported of raping civilians...same with the foreign legion.
not to mention the constnat occasional reporting of an american soldier being deported back to the states for raping a japanese girl....

As long as there are no major plundering and sacking, a few individual cases are not representing the whole of western military idea towards conquering people.

For example, we never heard US Marine sacked Baghdad same as Ottoman did towards Constantinople; none did we hear Napolean destructed any major cities in Europe, put all its inhabitants into slavery. Even among the savage Foreign Legion there were many legionnaires condemned raping as crime (and not to mention modern Foreign Legion highly condemn this type of crime and no raping events have been hear since 1970s). Yes, there are one or two individual cases, but it never represents the major idea of western military (and all those rapers were put under heavy punishment once they caught).

However, those "western military idea" only restrict to western countries; other countries, including eastern Europe, have different thought about it, such as the massive rape after Red Army pushed back Germany and "liberated" those eastern countries during WWII. Fortunately, the world is still largely controlling by West today, so any type of these violent actions would quickly condemn by West.

[Bovril]

I value compassion and solidarity, since they tend to make the world a better place to live in, and consequently think it is wrong to exploit people, especially when they are at their weakest. Therefore, I think it is wrong to plunder countries following wars.

[Exarch]

I value compassion and solidarity, since they tend to make the world a better place to live in, and consequently think it is wrong to exploit people, especially when they are at their weakest. Therefore, I think it is wrong to plunder countries following wars.

then u will undoubtedly condemn halliburton adn any american oil company that attempts to profit from the iraq situation.

Larry Everest, in oil, power and empire reports that american forces targeted power stations/infrastructure so the americans could profitn from reconstruction.

[Sidmen]

When a nation is defeated, it belongs to the conqueror's nation and is subject to its whims. All property within the defeated nation is forfeit and is subject to redistribution.

The US could claim that all oil in Iraq is the property of the US government, but it doesn't. There is a fine line between buying oil from a subject nation, and simply taking it. As for lucrative rebuilding contracts. How could that ever be considered plunder? Its one country employing its own people in rebuilding another country's infrastructure.