La Poste Di Falcone?

[Zephrelial]

I'm positive that most of you gentlemen have seen the movie,Kingdom of Heaven.. In that movie,where the small Crusader group set camp in woods,and when Godfrey de Ibelin(Liam Neeson) is sparring with Belian(Orlando Bloom),Godfrey is preserving a high stance with his sword and says to Belian:

"The italians call it la poste di falcone,never use a low guard"... Well since there are many articulate members in twc I was hoping if someone could confirm whether such a technique existed or did they just made that up for the movie,as it's the case in most of the hollywood productions? :hmmm:

Also I think we may discuss here the techniques that Knights used,when dismounted(if they possessed any) I'm not ashamed to say that I'm completely ignorant about medieval nobles swordmanship techniques..

[Osceola]

It's probably from Fiore De Liberi's treatise on swordsmanship with the longsword. During the middle ages, both Italian and German swordsmen were more or less responsible for the development of armed martial arts. Germans mostly, they left behind the most books on it, like the fechtbuchs of Liechtenauer and Ringeck.

And yes these arts are still practiced today!

[hellheaven1987]

Good question, from both my understanding of Medieval swordmanship and the movie, it seems that it is a high guard used to protect your upper body when enemy tried to attack your anything above breast level, then after blocking the defender could counter-attack.

Should be useful for defend anything above breast, but I don't it is useful protect legs; perhaps when enemy attacked your legs you needed to kill him before he did that.

Half-sword attack was much better explain in the movie.

[Juggernaut]

I'm a total amateur, but won't "never using a lower guard" make your attack very predictable?
Not to mention you leave your body exposed.

[hellheaven1987]

I'm a total amateur, but won't "never using a lower guard" make your attack very predictable?
Not to mention you leave your body exposed.

Yes, you actually leave your lower body completely exposed. However, I think the tactic is 1. If enemy attacks your upper body, you can block it, then return powerful counter-attack. 2. If enemy attack your lower body, you try your best avoid it; in the same time, launch powerful up to down slash on enemy, hopefully it kills enemy in one hit and before he reaches your lower body. 3. Normally, since the powerful up to down slash, most enemy would focus to protect his upper body with full force, so you may use time to find his weakness.

Yet, it is notable that this type of attack is usually quite slow, so flexible enemies may be able to avoid most attack and counter immediately.

[Ummon]

I'm positive that most of you gentlemen have seen the movie,Kingdom of Heaven.. In that movie,where the small Crusader group set camp in woods,and when Godfrey de Ibelin(Liam Neeson) is sparring with Belian(Orlando Bloom),Godfrey is preserving a high stance with his sword and says to Belian:

"The italians call it la poste di falcone,never use a low guard"... Well since there are many articulate members in twc I was hoping if someone could confirm whether such a technique existed or did they just made that up for the movie,as it's the case in most of the hollywood productions? :hmmm:

Also I think we may discuss here the techniques that Knights used,when dismounted(if they possessed any) I'm not ashamed to say that I'm completely ignorant about medieval nobles swordmanship techniques..

La Posta di Falcone, from the latin posita, past participle of poneo.

[Markynas]

I may be rather new to the board, but I have studied swordsmanship in various forms for over 12 years. Among them was the style displayed in Kingdom of Heaven as "La Posta di Falcone." The widened stance of this style allowed a man to switch quickly between a high and neutral guard. As hellheaven mentioned, this style of swordsmanship is rather slow and developed for single, strong swipes meant to overpower a foe who blocked instead of evaded or against single combat against a mounted foe. As you can imagine, in the era of this style's development, most men were clad in heavy armor which cut down on mobility. The concept is simple: Kill a foe in a single, massive strike to the head and chest, then move on.

[DekuTrash]

I may be rather new to the board

Rather new? Man you just hatched from the egg

Unless you're an ALT

[hellheaven1987]

I may be rather new to the board, but I have studied swordsmanship in various forms for over 12 years. Among them was the style displayed in Kingdom of Heaven as "La Posta di Falcone." The widened stance of this style allowed a man to switch quickly between a high and neutral guard. As hellheaven mentioned, this style of swordsmanship is rather slow and developed for single, strong swipes meant to overpower a foe who blocked instead of evaded or against single combat against a mounted foe. As you can imagine, in the era of this style's development, most men were clad in heavy armor which cut down on mobility. The concept is simple: Kill a foe in a single, massive strike to the head and chest, then move on.

Funny enough I actually learned that from video game "The Witcher", where you can change different attacking position, which different effect.

I have no time to further explain that now but I would post a more detailed explaination tommorrow.

By the way, I realize my post one and half year ago contains more intelligent thought than my current posts - what happen to me after one year??

[DAVIDE]

[busterprimex]

The swords of that time period were extremely heavy and even the strongest man will eventually tire after holding up and swinging one of those swords for a certain amount of time. It was probably discovered very early on that your shoulders were one of the strongest parts of your upper body. Virtually all your upper body movement involves your shoulders. So the idea for la poste di falcone was that your shoulders hold up the sword and take most of the weight, letting your arms stay fresh for when you needed to parry, block, or attack. Also, probably the most important part of the guard of the hawk was that by holding the big heavy sword high above your head, you could use gravity to help create a much stronger and more forceful strike when attacking or even defending against an opponent. Obviously it probably had its flaws seeing as how it leaves the majority of your body open to attack but thats probably why such heavy armor was also worn in those times.

[hellheaven1987]

Hmm, since someone bring back this thread, I should post teachings of German longsword school.

The Roof guard derives its name from the fact that it is poised to strike down from above. To stand in the Roof guard, hold the sword tip up, pointing just slightly back. Your hands and hilt should be above your head. Alternatively, the hilt can be held at the side of your head, but otherwise in the same position. Either way is correct, though if you choose the first, the sword should be in the center, and if you choose the second, the sword should be held on the side of your head that is also on the side of the back foot. The long edge faces your opponent.

Unlike the Ox or Plow, the Roof guard does not protect by intercepting an oncoming blade. Rather, the Roof guard protects by offense. Should an opponent blindly charge in, the Roof guard allows you to make a quick and powerful downward stroke. Your opponent most likely will see this and therefore will have to plan around this.

[Nik]

So the thread raises again.

The swords of that time period were extremely heavy

Sorry, complete and utter nonsense. Only if "extremly heavy" means 1-2 kg for you.

and even the strongest man will eventually tire after holding up and swinging one of those swords for a certain amount of time

You will tire from any weight held over your head, be it 5 g or 5 kg.

So the idea for la poste di falcone was that your shoulders hold up the sword and take most of the weight, letting your arms stay fresh for when you needed to parry, block, or attack. Also, probably the most important part of the guard of the hawk was that by holding the big heavy sword high above your head, you could use gravity to help create a much stronger and more forceful strike when attacking or even defending against an opponent. Obviously it probably had its flaws seeing as how it leaves the majority of your body open to attack but thats probably why such heavy armor was also worn in those times.

I only have some knowledge of the german school (the member Ringeck would probably be the best knowing person on the board), but staying in your guard (hut) vor prolonged periods of time was not a concept used. Use the guard as both a defensive means but also as a starting point for your strikes (haue) and dispatch your enemy fast.

[hellheaven1987]

I only have some knowledge of the german school (the member Ringeck would probably be the best knowing person on the board), but staying in your guard (hut) vor prolonged periods of time was not a concept used. Use the guard as both a defensive means but also as a starting point for your strikes (haue) and dispatch your enemy fast.

No, the idea is to quickly change your stance depends on situation, but remain its initial stance before every movement.

[Siegneur d'Enfer]

There is some legitimacy to the funamental tenets of this guard. Often basic concepts between Eastern and Western martial arts are shared. I'm reminded of the Jigen-ryu school of Kenjutsu which revolves around a single, massive diagonal cut from over one of the shoulders with the blade held vertically. It was said to be trained extensively and able to split a man in two. Obviously a longsword and a katana are meant to be used differently. But those experienced in the arts of killing men tend to have similar conventions for doing so.

I'm glad this thread was started though, I was interested in the same thing. I recently purchased a functional bastard sword and would like to train with it, but I have very little knowledge of Medieval martial arts. I abhor using unfounded forms unless I've proven them to myself.

[hellheaven1987]

There is some legitimacy to the funamental tenets of this guard. Often basic concepts between Eastern and Western martial arts are shared. I'm reminded of the Jigen-ryu school of Kenjutsu which revolves around a single, massive diagonal cut from over one of the shoulders with the blade held vertically. It was said to be trained extensively and able to split a man in two. Obviously a longsword and a katana are meant to be used differently. But those experienced in the arts of killing men tend to have similar conventions for doing so.

I'm glad this thread was started though, I was interested in the same thing. I recently purchased a functional bastard sword and would like to train with it, but I have very little knowledge of Medieval martial arts. I abhor using unfounded forms unless I've proven them to myself.

Basically the three basic stances are same for both Kenjutsu and longswordmanship - upper, middle and lower. Jodan (upper stance) is similar as German "Roof Guard", which is strong offensive stance but offer no defence for incoming attack. Chudan (middle stance) is the basic stance for all beginners and it is good for defence and offense, but not excel in both. Gedan (lower stance) is similar as German "Fool's Guard", which offers strong defence against all incoming attack but not good for offense. The other two stances that are not seen in Europe are Hasso and Waki (and even in Kendo it is rare to see people use those two, at least I never saw it before and my senpai said the same thing too), which only use for special situations.

[Siegneur d'Enfer]

Ah, thanks for the insight. Haven't studied the stances much.