Rep loss from sallying??

[loquar]

I have seen it said on many posts that sallying out to defend a city wont give you a rep hit and Ive often agreed with it as I hadnt seen it before.

I am playing a french game at the moment and am being attacked on all sides by the spanish, portugese, milan, HRE and the danes so most of my battles are defensive as attacking is going to get me excommed at the moment .

Anyway I sallied out of a city against a milanese besieging force, beat them and saw that i'd taken a rep hit from the pope, lost 1 cross. I thought this was strange and maybe a glitch but then in the next turn I attacked a blockading navy again from milan using the navy in the port they were blockading and got another rep hit.

Being a little confused at this, on the next turn again I was besieged by milan so I saved the game before sallying. Then i gifted the pope 200 florins and sallied. As soon as the end battle option came up I ended it rather than running the fleeing troops down, then I released all the captives which I understood makes people happy with you...... again I got a rep hit to very poor with the pope.

So while I dont think he will excom you for sallying it seems that the pope doesnt like you sallying against other christians who are after your blood. And at none of this time was I even under a mission to cease hostilities.

Thank god i took tunisia on the crusade and got my relations to perfect, now the pope can suck eggs for a couple of turns while I decimate my catholic neighbours

[miccofl]

In my experience, any attack on any catholic faction for any reason lowers your reputation with the pope. I was once excommed for attacking a fleet that was blockading my harbor and I attacked from within the harbor. I have found it best when attacking other catholic factions to keep a diplomat parked at Rome and at the end of every attacking turn slip the pope enough graft to keep my standing as close to perfect as is financially possible as one can get away with a lot more that way.

[Pyrebound]

The rep loss with the pope could be just passive decrease.

[Razbojnik]

Sally attempts are counted as attacks,so if you general has "good attacker" trait it will count +1 command when attacking,same with auto_win cheats and papal approval.

[craziii]

that is really broken gameplay mechanics.

[Razbojnik]

Its realy crappy if you get excommunicated because of sallying...

[Cyrus Spitama]

It works the other way too: recently I had a Milanese fortress under siege and was told to stop attacking the faction by the Pope. I kept the siege but did not attack, so when the time ran out for them they did not sally, to avoid themselves the excommunication I suppose, and lost the fortress to my troops. The Pope orders remain intact and I'm still supposed not to atack them for a few more turns even tough I just captured one of their settlements.

[craziii]

but sallying is a defense action, should not be counted as attacking, that was the point of this thread.

[loquar]

but sallying is a defense action, should not be counted as attacking, that was the point of this thread.

Thanks craziii, I was thinking it had lost something in the translation lol

[N3rull]

It turns out that the Pope has a somewhat "i-don't-give-a-crap-who-started-it" kind of view.

1. Each round of war against a non-excommunicated Catholic faction (let's call it neCf for short), no matter who started, lowers the reputation with the Pope.

2. Each soldier killed in such a War with a neCf lowers your rep by even more, again, no matter who started.

I was the inspiration to all Christendom when HRE, Milan, later Danes attacked me (and two of them got temporarly excommed for it) and in time the Pope reconciled the HRE and Milan (because I was punishing them enough). He didn't order me to stop, but my rep kept dropping and dropping. I tried to make a truce, but they were stubborn and every offer of a ceasefire was described as "very demanding" even though I could have easily ripped them apart... which was what I did, eventually.

[Snizel]

When you become so powerful that no one faction can defeat you alone then your faction reputation and standing with the pope doesn't matter at all as you no longer need alliances to aid you, you become unstoppable.

[Habelo]

I never get rep loss from pope when i defend on my own bloody lands:S
If a faction walks around on my lands i can freely attack em...

[Joel92]

you can lose rep if you sally forth because it counts as an attack. you attack a catholic faction, so your rep drops. you can preven this by waiting untill they attack you..

[loquar]

you can lose rep if you sally forth because it counts as an attack. you attack a catholic faction, so your rep drops. you can preven this by waiting untill they attack you..

Yup but previous "accepted wisom" on the forums seemed to be that sallying and breaking blockades was exempt from the rep hit. I have never been excommed for sallying when under a stop hostilities order for example.

Seems thats not so clear cut now.

And as Razbojnik said, what if they starve you out?

[Joel92]

then you sally forth on the last turn possible

[Razbojnik]

Sometimes they dont attack,they starve u out.

[N3rull]

... with your armies reduced by 15% due to long-lasting starvation. Not a desirable thing, is it.

[loquar]

What N3rull said ^^

If I intend to sally at all I always do it as soon as possible, only time I wait is if I have reinforcements that I need in order to win that are on their way and will take a turn or 2 to arrive.

[Doge]

In my experience, the AI almost always attacks in 1 or 2 turns...I agree with Joel92, try to hold out so you can fight a defensive battle and preserve your rep