I used to be pro choice...

[RZZZA]

I don't think I'm pro choice anymore. I used to be staunchly pro choice, a womans body is her business, government out of my vagina, that sort of thing. but the more I look at the other side of the argument, the more I start to agree that abortion is exactly like murder, and we don't make it a habit to let people get away with murder in this society, do we?

The turning point for me was actually watching abortions be done, parts of one on video, reading about the procedures, and viewing pictures. I don't know if the TOS will cover me if I do want to post a picture of a dead baby coming out of a vagina (think anatomy books), I most likely won't post it anyway since it is, what I consider to be, very disturbing material.

Now I don't know what I am. I'm pro life now I guess, I hate to lump myself in with that pro-life crowd but I guess I have to. I think abortions should only be done in the most extreme circumstances, like if the mother was raped.

What do you think?

[Sleeper]

I believe that we should focus on living people rather than potential life. If you aren't breathing on your own you aren't alive. However, I think we should severely restrict the right to have children, going as far as forced sterilization after one has a certain number of children. Now that we have the scientific knowledge to identify both father and mother, personal responsibility can actually be practiced as it has always been preached.

[Justice and Mercy]

I believe that we should focus on living people rather than potential life. If you aren't breathing on your own you aren't alive.

Oh right. When I was hooked up to those machines as a baby in order to breathe I wasn't alive. I was a cyborg. And no one likes cyborgs.

However, I think we should severely restrict the right to have children, going as far as forced sterilization after one has a certain number of children.

So much for the government staying out of our business.

Now that we have the scientific knowledge to identify both father and mother, personal responsibility can actually be practiced as it has always been preached.

This has what to do with what?

[RZZZA]

its hard to argue that a baby is just "potential" life and not actual life when it is fully formed though. We're not talking about a few cells here that get scrambled, we're talking a near fully functional little person already.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Look at this, if you dare

[Earl of Rochester]

It is a really tough issue, unless your in high school in get your girlfriend pregnant. All the sudden the issue becomes a lot more concrete.

[Irishman]

If you aren't breathing on your own you aren't alive.

Seems rather arbitrary. Are coma patients on life support alive?

For me, I am on the fence. I am definitely not in support of abortion, in fact I think it is wrong most of the time, HOWEVER, I dont think that I have any right to impose that belief on a woman at this time. I guess that makes me pro-choice, but personally pro-life.

I would rather abortion be legal than for one woman to be unjustly forced into pregnancy.

[RZZZA]

why cant parents who are unready to be parents give their baby up for adoption? Its very hard to do, but a lot more decent and humane than killing the baby.

[Earl of Rochester]

why cant parents who are unready to be parents give their baby up for adoption? Its very hard to do, but a lot more decent and humane than killing the baby.

And accept all the social stigma that comes along with a pregnancy? Not to mention how difficult it would be to be pregnant and remain a good student.

My girlfriend was afraid that she was pregnant and said she would get an abortion. While I would rather that not happen there is no way I could argue with her. I understand your position, but positions are created out of personal experiences. Im not trying to convince you of anything, I just think its important to show why some are pro-choice.

For me, I am on the fence. I am definitely not in support of abortion, in fact I think it is wrong most of the time, HOWEVER, I dont think that I have any right to impose that belief on a woman at this time. I guess that makes me pro-choice, but personally pro-life.

I would rather abortion be legal than for one woman to be unjustly forced into pregnancy.

But that is exactly what pro-choice is all about. That is why there is no stance called pro-abortion. Nearly all pro-choice people see abortion as morally wrong, but something that has to exist.

[The Good]

I don't think I'm pro choice anymore. I used to be staunchly pro choice, a womans body is her business, government out of my vagina, that sort of thing. but the more I look at the other side of the argument, the more I start to agree that abortion is exactly like murder, and we don't make it a habit to let people get away with murder in this society, do we?

The turning point for me was actually watching abortions be done, parts of one on video, reading about the procedures, and viewing pictures. I don't know if the TOS will cover me if I do want to post a picture of a dead baby coming out of a vagina (think anatomy books), I most likely won't post it anyway since it is, what I consider to be, very disturbing material.

Now I don't know what I am. I'm pro life now I guess, I hate to lump myself in with that pro-life crowd but I guess I have to. I think abortions should only be done in the most extreme circumstances, like if the mother was raped.

What do you think?

RZZZA, I agree exactly with you. Abortion, is a horrible, heinous, unhuman act. That picture you just showed is exactly what abortion really is and involves.

Also, many of you won't like me for bringing Christianity in this, but the Bible states that we should respect Human life (this does not necessarilly include grown men who are corrupt dictators. Christians should pray for reform of their lives though).

[green tea]

It really wouldn't be a bad thing at all if we allowed the infant to live, in fact, it is good, and I'll explain why. This may seem a little cruel, but the US government (and other nations) should consider this; China's population is rising, and if a war eventually breaks out, then we need more population to protect ourselves from this looming threat, if it happens at all.

Also, many of you won't like me for bringing Christianity in this, but the Bible states that we should respect Human life (this does not necessarilly include grown men who are corrupt dictators.

I am really astonished. From the discussion in the other thread, I would really have thought you were a real christian. I don´t have a special relationship to the christians, but I understand enough of their teachings to think that Jesus would not appreciate this china-agument.
We have to keep the babies so they can kill chinese, is this the argument against abortion?

[Turbo]

I am really astonished. From the discussion in the other thread, I would really have thought you were a real christian. I don´t have a special relationship to the christians, but I understand enough of their teachings to think that Jesus would not appreciate this china-agument.
We have to keep the babies so they can kill chinese, is this the argument against abortion?

Lucius was trying to introduce some humor.

Seriously though, the government of China persecutes Chinese Catholics and set up a state run mockery of the Catholic church. Catholics who practice in China in secret are imprisoned, tortured and executed. Small wonder many Christians consider the government of China as an enemy of Christianity.

[The Good]

You know...I just cannot imagine being one of those who have to perform the actual abortion. Terribly sad and disgusting work....

[Thanatos]

It's easy to be pro-choice when you're not the one getting killed.

Congrats, RZZZA, I'm glad you've changed on this topic.

[Earl of Rochester]

It's easy to be pro-choice when you're not the one getting killed.

Congrats, RZZZA, I'm glad you've changed on this topic.

It's easy to be pro-life when your not the one pregnant.

[Thanatos]

It's easy to be pro-life when your not the one pregnant.

Sucks for the baby, then.

[Earl of Rochester]

Sucks for the baby, then.

Not really. The baby doesn't ever suffer though it might very do so if it is not aborted.

[RZZZA]

its just too bad we live in a world where little babies have to die as part of a standard procedure, I guess. Both pro choice and pro life people are right and neither side can really stop infanticide in the long run.

Evil must exist, I agree, but babies having to die is really evil and I hope there is something that can be done to lower the amount of abortions people have to get. I don't know what, invent a more reliable contraceptive method? stricter oversights in the hospitals? I don't know but things as they are now can't be as good as it gets.

[Earl of Rochester]

The answer is birth control that works 100% of the time and is widely distributed and encouraged. Unfortunately we just don't have that.

[RZZZA]

The answer is birth control that works 100% of the time and is widely distributed and encouraged. Unfortunately we just don't have that.

Well, condoms and the pill are probably as close to perfection as we're gonna get. The problem with the condom is that it breaks or people forget to put it on. Breakages have about a 2-4% chance of happening (heavily dependant on which condom you use, how you use it and whether or not its lubed). So we just need to find a tougher material, something other than latex, which is unbreakable.

Solution: dump a few billion more into NASA per year and have them come up with the material. They're good at this type of thing, they've already created new types of materials with extraordinary properties.


edit: but yeah, J&M is right, this does nothing to help people who just go DUH and dont use a contraceptive in the first place

[Earl of Rochester]

Well, condoms and the pill are probably as close to perfection as we're gonna get. The problem with the condom is that it breaks or people forget to put it on. Breakages have about a 2-4% chance of happening (heavily dependant on which condom you use, how you use it and whether or not its lubed). So we just need to find a tougher material, something other than latex, which is unbreakable.

I have had two condoms break during one go. Did everything right and they were mainstream stuff. Thank God my girlfriend was on the pill as well..

edit: but yeah, J& is right, this does nothing to help people who just go DUH and dont use a contraceptive in the first plac

Well its understandable. To get put on the pill kids have to tell their parents they are having sex, and most girls aren't going to do that. And sometimes people get caught in the moment. Its hard to think when your aroused. People haven't been in this situation just can' understand.

Basically after their first period girls should be put on birth control. Unfortunately the birth control that is out there is has some side effects and doesn't always work. Perhaps im being idealistic, but this seems like something the government should invest in.

And by what right do you speak of the baby?

Im not. Logically if you abort a fetus it is not going to suffer. There is no subjectivity in that. Now if it lives in an unwanted household there is a chance it will suffer. A chance substantially higher than zero. Again there isn't any subjectivity in that...