Varangian Guard

[Razbojnik]

Can some1 tell me are Varangians worth of upkeep cost,because they die from almost any unit,except peasants,archers,and feudal knights(im playing vanilla MIITW btw)

[Pontifex Maximus]

nope stick with swords

[pwijnands]

They have a very slow attack animation so they will spend their time playing blocking/hit-taking animations till they die.

[eggthief]

Don"t put them on the front line and use them against cavalry.

[Razbojnik]

Don"t put them on the front line and use them against cavalry.

I tried.Even Scottish Border Horses massacre them with only 3-4 casualties.

[big_feef]

I tried.Even Scottish Border Horses massacre them with only 3-4 casualties.

What version of M2TW are you using? I just tried that out it with my untouched 1.3 M2TW install and basically decimated Border Horses with my Varangians. I also decimated Chivalric Knights, Lancers, and several other non-ap heavy cavalry units. I only managed to beat Qapukulu 4 out of 10 times though... and even so with heavy casualties. Lancers I beat 8 out of 10 times... but they don't have shields and suck in prolonged melee against heavy infantry anyway.

I also did the tests using cavalry against AI Varangians and still got hammered by them. Of course, I didn't use the charge and pull back trick that the AI doesn't seem to use much.

An even better way to test how effective Varangians are would have been to go up against another human opponent. Unfortunately, my buddy wasn't on to test things out with today...

I did this because the Varangian Guard is a unit I use a lot in my Byzantine campaigns because of their very effective anti-cavalry abilities. I'm very surprised that they still get pwned by cavalry for you... the only thing I can think of is that you're not using the 1.2 or 1.3 patch.

[big_feef]

In pre 1.2 M2TW, Varangians and any other two hander that shared their animation (Dismounted English, Noble and Portuguese Knights for example) would get owned even by peasants sometimes. The 1.2 patch helped their situation a bit by fixing the broken animation; but their animation is still so very slow that faster units keep them blocking most of the time. Because of this, I would seriously recommend using the Dismounted Byzantine Lancers for your heavy infantry as they kill faster and take way less casualties than Varangians while being much cheaper. They only thing at which the Varangians are better than them is in attacking/defending against cavalry, which they can tear apart with ease with little casualties unless they've received a charge to the rear (and even then they can easily maul any unit of heavy cavalry in the game during the melee).

[eggthief]

Dismounted Latinkons can easily be the backbone of your armies, they´re only slightly weaker than chiv. knights.

[Cyrus Spitama]

In reverse of the favourite unit thread, this unit seems to be one of the biggest money wasters in the game. I also don't see the point to pike units, unlike Rome phalanx units they seem to be easy pickings for most infantry units even in head on charges.

[Skyline Pete]

In every quick battle I've played as the Byz with Varangian guards they've been the ones to get the most kills against all types of units.

Give them better armour and a little experience and they're even better!

[Cataclysm]

Hide them in trees and charge form behind when the enemy is busy with your front lines. The 20 damage + AP + 9 charge bonus will decimate all infantry. Use them against cavalry. They really are great units, second only to Venetian Heavy Infantry in my tests.

[eggthief]

Hide them in trees and charge form behind when the enemy is busy with your front lines. The 20 damage + AP + 9 charge bonus will decimate all infantry. Use them against cavalry. They really are great units, second only to Venetian Heavy Infantry in my tests.

That was a long time ago when someone (lusted i think) made an animation fix for 1.1 or 1.2, these days they are pretty weak, but then again the byzantines did receive greek firethrowers so that compensates.

[Razbojnik]

Hide them in trees and charge form behind when the enemy is busy with your front lines. The 20 damage + AP + 9 charge bonus will decimate all infantry. Use them against cavalry. They really are great units, second only to Venetian Heavy Infantry in my tests.

Well,they bash when they charge,but when they start figting,they are raped.on my tests(1 vs 1)they are only better than knights(dismounted).

[big_feef]

Varangians will always suck against other heavy infantry because they don't have a melee shield bonus... even though it looks like they receive one from their edu entry; they don't.

What that basically means is that they will get owned by comparable shield-bearing heavy infantry... I just had a battle there my Varangians lost half their strength against 4 units of Italian Spear Militia and before breaking them. On the other side of the field in the same battle, my Dismounted Byzantine Lancers just waded through about the same amount without losing more than about 10 guys.

But now, try them out against cavalry where they are attacking... they consistently carve up heavy cavalry (the only exceptions being heavy cavalry with ap weapons) for me in vanilla. I see this more in mp games which have to be plain vanilla anyway; people get shocked that their precious knights just got broken by my Varangians who barely lost even 10 or 15 guys.

[Trajan]

I never used Varangian guards as front line troops. I always placed them at the rear to plug in the holes in the lines or come around the flanks or just act as support. I either had Dismounted Latinkons or Byzantine Guard Pike men or both at the front.

[T-wester]

i use them as shock troops and charge fighting units, and they will rout almost instantly