Pikemen

[Chipp]

I've played a couple of battles on DLV and have noticed that pikemen are WAY too strong. They can beat anything on the battlefield.

[GODSTATUS]

they dont beat

1) heavy infantry
2) cavalry archers
3) general's bodyguards
4) 2 units of pikes vs 1

[Caspand]

You should try using Bryz heavy spearmen then, they are like god's on the battlefield.

They will tear anything that come against them to pieces =)

But yes i agree, pikes are too strong

[Vangar]

One unit of landsknechts once beat four units of gotland footmen. I mean pikemen are supposed to have a strong stand but two-handed swordsmen were supposed to breach a phalanx - yes, they are supposed to take heavy casaulties, but in this particular case about 360 footmen died and about 12 (twelve) landsknechts...

[Chipp]

Yes, I was testing out the Flemish Pikemen in particular. Because they don't switch to their secondary weapons the phalanx formation can't be beat.

[Chipp]

Yeah, I've reduced the Flemish Pikemen's attack from 17 to 7, and they seem to work better.

[scivian]

The stats are fine where they are. They are gods only in one way; the phalanx type formation. The reason that tactic was used for so long is because of its dominance. It is a specialized tactic just like the light horse arch or heavy cavalry, where its impossible to beat them on their turf (so to speak). The main counter to a specialized unit is a match of that unit, preferably a 2:1 ratio.

A soldier should not be expected to breach a wall of spears and when it happens it should be rare. Only a perfect counter attack should beat them. They must kept busy from the front with a unit with enough armor and moral to withstand the inevitable heavy losses while units can attack from the back. If your facing a wall of those units don't fight without a perfect unit set and a perfect plan of attack.

Or simply use professionals archers with long range and armor piercing ability and they wont last long, even from the front because they have no shields.

[Harry Lime]

I agree completely with Scivian. Either hit them from the rear with melee troops, on the run with skirmishers or from a distance with missile troops.

[repman]

i have deleted the secondary weapon for the phalanx, reduced attack values and the front line density. Maybe i should reduce them more

repman

[Chipp]

Yeah, I know HOW to beat them, but does the AI? I feel like I'm exploiting the AI as I just plow through their best units with a crappy unit of Flemish Pikes. It's a bit ridiculous.

[Cyphon88]

In every mod there's going to exploits for the AI no matter what. It just degenerates into whether you want to win, or play realistically or whatever. as long as they cause you problems, and any other AI problems then its working as intended surely?

[scivian]

You may want to write your concern about the BAI in the Darth forum and see what they say. See if its been mentioned first though.

[Valantine]

The way i beat them is to run a cheap but high moral unit into them, as England i normally use some form of Bill Militia as their armour value is pretty high. Then i either rain down death upon them with Longbowmen or even better charge them fro mthe rear with a cavalry unit. All pikemen break easily when they are surrounded as the phlanax formation simply cannot cope with multiple front battles.
With using the formation against the AI, on Very Hard or even Hard battles the AI often seems smart enough to out manouever them. Or they simply attack with much larger stacks and you wont have THAT many spearman to repulse the whole attack unless you are exploiting the pikemen yourself and simply building armies full of them, in which case i don't see any ground to complain.
Yes its not perfect and "real life" but ultimately MTW2 with DLV is the closest we have right now from the safety of our desks/armchairs/toilets (if you like to log in whilst you log out )
Regards
V

[Odie the King]

The pikes have caused me not to play Scotland anymore because my battles are all won by me with about a 1:20 ratio in causulties. so I figure it would be more of a challenge to play against scotland hoping they mass up alot of pikes against me.

Someone mentioned earlier that a bodyguard unit can beat pikes...???? how is this ..unless they attack from the rear.. I havent seen the AI's general survive a battle yet.. they get killed at the outset of most battles....usually when they susicide themselves into the pikes for no good reason.. hopefully this can also be worked on...

I wouldnt mind the domininant pikes if the AI knew what to do about it.. but they dont as usual and all they do is keep attacking everyhting including cavalry directly at the front of the phalanx formation.. ridiculous

I'm venting here cause I know Repman can fix...

DLV

[Silent Hunter]

If someone is interested, here is my modified EDU. I rebalanced the pikemen a lot. Now they all have 1 defense skill, their protection is only their armor (How will you defend yourself with a pike???). And all attack damages are between 2 for the Pike Militia and 7 for the Swiss Pikeman. It works very well, the pikemen are still good, but not so overpowered.

Just place the file in your \Medieval II Total War\DLV_ext\data folder and overwrite the old file. Hope you like it.

[Chipp]

If someone is interested, here is my modified EDU. I rebalanced the pikemen a lot. Now they all have 1 defense skill, their protection is only their armor (How will you defend yourself with a pike???). And all attack damages are between 2 for the Pike Militia and 7 for the Swiss Pikeman. It works very well, the pikemen are still good, but not so overpowered.

Just place the file in your \Medieval II Total War\DLV_ext\data folder and overwrite the old file. Hope you like it.

Thanks. +rep

[ivanhoex]

hi

i have found that changing mass on pikes does help, but it is both weird and when they got piled one upon the other the effect is pretty much unnotticeable

in my sig there are some values and an older edu (only for the willful)

in my experience with the earlier AI of scotland at the DLV british campaing, the less trained units where beaten by anyone, they just couldnt cope as well, but the armoured pikemen where cute. they draw their sword in the front lines while the rest kept piking people, so it was all around a nice looking battlefield, they got a lot of men down (i won my battles on a 1:4 ratio and i am playing this since shogun).

when the sword is removed, the animation becomes too powerful, the repman fix to this helps, but then they get into the grey... people starts to scramble around the armour values and such things, wich in time makes the unit not work against certain things or situations, ending broken..

when i took the unit to work on them, i exploted the fear on horses and that kind of values, so they are formidable against cavalry, but once the phalanx is breached, and they come to swording, they are as good unit as they are supposed, no more, no less.


just working with (cant remember exact name) bonus against horses, pike_bonus, leaving the armour just as they are dressed, if they are dressed as a knight, then they have as much armour... and in mellee, i calculate if they are well trained or just militiamen... the number in my sheet worked marvels in that DLV, i dont see why cant they be placed in the new one, giving them back their swords..




its not the firt time im deffending this position... but i cant just see the pike unit not fighting like men but like robots..