Ireland needs a new unique unit

[THEMANMAN]

First off I want to say that this is an amazing mod. Very nice.

But when I was looking at Ireland I noticed that they have the unique unit of Welsh. The Welsh longbowman should be for the Welsh. Now making a Welsh faction would take up unit spots and cause other problems. But to make the game more historically correct the Irish should have a unit that means something to them. The Irish should have Royal Gallowglass. This would be more correct.

[delra]

Well, Irish need pretty much everything. No decent archers, no decent spears, no decent cavalry and no decent heavy swords, actually the weakest faction on the map... And they can't get templars/joannites also.

I cried from somewhere around turn 30 up to turn 150 when I quit the game. :-/

Especially when I took their all-elite army on a crusade and all that was left from it was my general with two bodyguards and 9 silver chevron muires...

[Echad]

You forget to mention that they have ugly map position with only one rebel provence to expand (it being heavy garissoned) and having the upper-left corner of the map, which means it is one of the farthest from the center of the map states.

[delra]

And they are all green.

[Echad]

And they are all green.

Well, I kinda like green colour, but not in such amounts... BTW Milan is also green. Any feedback on the Milan-Genoa conversion thread?

P.S. Color was the main thing I chose England when I ran this game for the first time, and chose Venice in my first hotseat game.

[Schweizergarde]

While its probably sensible to add Welsh, especially since Kingdoms provide a template for the faction, I don't think there's enough room on the British Isle. Unless the map is drastically expended, having 4 factions on an island with 11 regions is stretching the bounds.

[Echad]

Yeah, GBr should be reworked, especially since the current map of it looks awful (look at estern Irelan coast)... It was ok like that when there were just two factions, but now only England has free expansion, with Scots and Irish don't letting each other to expand.

[delra]

Speaking of colours... I think about Genoa as a yellow faction. Probably an EU3 thing in me. Let's make them yellow.

And I really dislike Milan. When I first got the game I thought "why the hell Milan?". :-)

[Echad]

Speaking of colours... I think about Genoa as a yellow faction. Probably an EU3 thing in me. Let's make them yellow.

And I really dislike Milan. When I first got the game I thought "why the hell Milan?". :-)

I wanted to make Genoa gold... Not that chicken yellow, as Denmark in SS. What about the color like in their Coat of Arms, here:



I do not know, if I will do a reskin, but I can do everything concerning their symbols... Let's move this discussion to appropriate forum, as I remember a topic on Burgundy transferred to Genoa the same way.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=138239

Regarding "why the hell Milan?" thing - it is because the Medieval: Total War 1 featured Milan as a only playable Italian faction (they didn't had Venice and both Papacy and Sicily were unplayable)

[delra]

Gold Genoa is fine with me. And I think Burgundy topic going towards Genoa was also my fault. Apologies. :-)

[Inhuman One]

Gold decorations all over their knights might be a good idea, but thats still just their metal.

But about Ireland, they have a lot of unique units so thats not an issue. their roster is just too small. They need a knightly order of some sorts, and possibly some standard units that most european factions have such as feudal knights, armored sargeants and spear militia.

[Echad]

Gold decorations all over their knights might be a good idea, but thats still just their metal.

But about Ireland, they have a lot of unique units so thats not an issue. their roster is just too small. They need a knightly order of some sorts, and possibly some standard units that most european factions have such as feudal knights, armored sargeants and spear militia.

Maybe something unique, as I do not imagine the Knightly Order of St. Patrick knights! =\

[Inhuman One]

Maybe just templar knights and hospitaler knights?

[Antagonist]

Well, there were Templars at least (don't know about Hospitalliers) in Ireland and there were Irish Templar knights, but they would probably have operated (and gone on Crusades etc.) as part of the English order.

The Saethwyr aren't really inaccurate (except for their Welsh name) as longbowmen were used in Ireland, they just weren't as famed as the English or Welsh versions.

In a general sense though, the Irish roster uses CA's Kingdoms one, which isn't that bad but still doesn't really do them justice. Ireland obviously wasn't a great power during the medieval period and for the latter half of M2TW's timeline at least it wasn't even a unified state, so their "significance" is fairly borderline. But what makes them interesting to depict (and is why they are so often requested) is precisely because they aren't a regular feudal western European faction in terms of their military. There are, for example, accounts from Spanish knights going on pilgrimages to Ireland (particularly to Saint Patrick's Purgatory, which was famed all around Europe for supposedly being a portal between Earth and Hell) who compare the armies and tactics of the Irish with those of the Saracens (probably alluding to the focus on light cavalry, skirmishing and fast attack tactics, comparatively light mail armour and the use of things like mounted archers) I would think an Irish faction should ideally have, like the Scots, a marked distinction between "standard" feudal European troops and "barbarian" Gaelic units, except that where Scotland has a handful of highland troops in a mostly feudal roster Ireland should be primarily Gaelic, with a smaller number of "regular" troops (mostly spearmen and knights) representing Norman influence.

FWIW, some ideas for Irish unique units would be things like Reformed/Late Galloglaich (more heavily armoured, armed with either poleaxes or 2h-swords, medium defence but excellent shock infantry) or Gaelic Mounted Nobles (medium cavalry armed with bows and spears or swords)

Antagonist

[delra]

I already posted this (Templar/Joannites) to the suggestions thread. Did that after my very boring Ireland campaign. :-)

[echo_1]

Maybe Knights Who Say Ni?

[delra]

Muahahahahahah. A good one.

[Fenix_120]

Historically Ireland was conquered before plate armor was introduced but this game is not historical, its historically based.


I agree with Antagonist, If Ireland was still independent by the late age of the game they would have re-equipped their Gallowglachs with plate armor and halberds.

They did use crossbows I believe.

[Kyias]

What I think would be interesting, and this isn't just an Ireland idea, but what if the upkeep of those "generic" feudal, chivalric, mailed knights were available to most or all of the factions but the upkeep of those units varied from faction to faction to signify the different faction's abilities to support them.

This method would recognize the rarity of these knights in some of the Medieval factions but still allow them to be used on a smaller scale in recognition that they did exist.

[Inhuman One]

That would make them a new unit I believe, and I doubt that having 10 feudal knight slots alone would be welcome.

Maybe replenishment rate could differ for factions but I am not sure about that.