Army

**Bumson** · December 29, 2007, 05:44 AM

I am playing as France in vanilla and was wondering...

1) Which is better...noble knights, chivalric knights, or lancers?

2) Other than the 3 types of knights listed above, does France get a chance to recruit a better unit on horseback...if so, what are they and how do you get them?

3) Does France get a better missle unit than adventuriers?

4) Do you need gunpowder units to defeat the Mongols and Timurids?

5) Do the Mongols and Timurids attack any of the other factions controlled by the AI or do they come straight for you?

**Pyrebound** · December 29, 2007, 06:22 AM

1: Lancers are one of the heaviest horseback units in the west.

2: There is no 'best' cavalry, they have their uses. From first officer building they get horse archers in addition to other melee cavalry.

3: Aventuriers are good enough, but they also get longbow Scots Guard from cities. And of course the horse archers. You could check custom battles to view different units the factions get.

4: No, you do not NEED it, but it may help.

5: They act like other ai, attacking neighbours. So if youre sharing borders with them, and they dont like you much, they are likely to attack you.

**spanish_emperor** · January 20, 2008, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by Pyrebound

1: Lancers are one of the heaviest horseback units in the west.

2: There is no 'best' cavalry, they have their uses. From first officer building they get horse archers in addition to other melee cavalry.

actually there is a 'best' cavalry: gothic knights

they have the second best charge in the game, after lancers and might suffer a bit more casualties but when they get their maces out the lancers are dead in no time

no other cavalry can compare to them. (except HA)
if you don't believe me try it in custom battle

**pwijnands** · December 29, 2007, 07:08 AM

4. Gunpowder artillery helps a lot in scaring the Timurids' elephants.

5. They should attack all factions, but if you are very strong they are more inclined to dislike you. You can discourage them from attacking you, but you will need to have lots of troops to do it.

**Bumson** · December 29, 2007, 11:18 AM

Thank you to both of you

**antaeus** · December 30, 2007, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by pwijnands

4. Gunpowder artillery helps a lot in scaring the Timurids' elephants.

5. They should attack all factions, but if you are very strong they are more inclined to dislike you. You can discourage them from attacking you, but you will need to have lots of troops to do it.

the best unit in the game for dealing with elephants, is the french lancers.

2 units of french lancers working in tandem, will deal with any one unit of elephants in a hurry.

most other superheavy cavalry will do well also, but i have found lancers best in repeated custom battle tests...

and yeah, the mongols and timurids will attack anything along their line of advance. its fairly obvious which city they are going towards, either antioch, jerusalem, or kiev usually. if you own the city they want you will have war and there is nothing you can do about it. after they capture their target city, they will expand in all directions their troop numbers will allow.

their most vulnerable time, is when they are just arriving, and their army is coming onto the map piecemeal. if you arent worried about your rep, its best to take them out at this time. otherwise make your stand on rivers where you cant be enveloped by their superior numbers.

**Hunter Makoy** · December 29, 2007, 11:57 PM

on the cav. the only different that i remember between the chivalric knights and the noble knights is that the chiv knights have a lower upkeep cost. if u look closely, they dont even use different unit info pics. as far as a sheer ramming instrument, lancers r probbly the best. however noble or chiv knights will work very well, and r easier to get. i ussually just stuck with the chiv knights and used them as the bulk of my force.

the scots guard that the french get in the huge cities is a very nice archer, esp. for a city. but it comes in very limited numbers and costs alot. but a good steady mix between the scots guard and the adventuriors would be a very good mix. scots guard inpaticular for defending cities and castles because of the flaiming missles to set rams and towers afire.

**Point Blank** · December 30, 2007, 01:40 AM

Noble Knights used mailed horses, Chivs just have barded horses.

**Hunter Makoy** · December 30, 2007, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Noble Knights used mailed horses, Chivs just have barded horses.

really? i never noticed that. does it have any effect on gameplay, or just cosmetic?

**Surgeon** · December 30, 2007, 10:51 PM

I believe mailed horses have slightly more mass with the new patch, though I am not certain (enlighten me?). Also, I think they're more resilient to missiles, if not everything. And possibly they're a bit slower?

For the OP:
1) Lancers are France's heaviest cavalry, but if I recall they do not have shields. This makes them slightly more vulnerable to armor-piercing attacks. After Lancers it's possibly Noble Knights, though they have their own different uses.
2) Their mounted missile troops are pretty good. They don't get any knights heavier than Lancers though.
3) Other than gunpowder units? I personally think Scots Guard are better than Aventurier because they can lay stakes, which are absolutely killer vs cavalry.
4) As already said above, no, but it helps, especially against LAZERphants.
5) In my experience they will attack anyone, but go for the more powerful civilizations first.

**Hunter Makoy** · December 31, 2007, 11:41 PM

well if someone needs a cav. heavier or better then lancers, they need to rethink their ability as a cav. general, lol.

and i agree, even tho scots gaurds arrive pretty late, and r quite an investment, having a good longbowmen to lay stakes really fills out the diversity of frances army (which IMO is very lacking in the early-mid game). plus i believe the only other unit in the game (other then englands many longbowmen) that can lay stakes r the venician archers, but i've never used them so i dont know for sure.

**merlinuscdxx** · January 10, 2008, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Hunter Makoy

well if someone needs a cav. heavier or better then lancers, they need to rethink their ability as a cav. general, lol.

and i agree, even tho scots gaurds arrive pretty late, and r quite an investment, having a good longbowmen to lay stakes really fills out the diversity of frances army (which IMO is very lacking in the early-mid game). plus i believe the only other unit in the game (other then englands many longbowmen) that can lay stakes r the venician archers, but i've never used them so i dont know for sure.

Turkish Janissary archers also use stakes.

**Razbojnik** · January 11, 2008, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by merlinuscdxx

Turkish Janissary archers also use stakes.

Lithuanian archers too

**Bumson** · January 18, 2008, 08:58 PM

Thank you everyone for your input. I bought some Scot Guard and have been having trouble laying down stakes. How exactly can you do this? I am playing vanilla unpatched....I first hit the button to not hear the pre-battle speech, and then looked for the option to lay down stakes but could not find any..I then decided to hit the button to start the battle assuming the option would show up but it did not. What am I doing wrong? Do I have to be fighting an enemy army with at least one unit of cavalry to get the stakes?

**Kristofer** · January 19, 2008, 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by Bumson

Thank you everyone for your input. I bought some Scot Guard and have been having trouble laying down stakes. How exactly can you do this? I am playing vanilla unpatched....I first hit the button to not hear the pre-battle speech, and then looked for the option to lay down stakes but could not find any..I then decided to hit the button to start the battle assuming the option would show up but it did not. What am I doing wrong? Do I have to be fighting an enemy army with at least one unit of cavalry to get the stakes?

You need to place the stakes before starting the battle. Scots Guard can not use stakes; you need to play as England, Poland or Turkey to get access to archers with stakes.

**Captain Spanky** · January 11, 2008, 01:51 PM

1) I would go with Chivalric Knights, as they are cheaper than Noble and have the same stats. Lancers are city units, and more expensive without lower stats, so I wouldnt recommend them. Its up to you what you decide on using.

2) One to try would be the French Mounted Archers, mounted longbows rule. I believe it is in the second military academy building, in a huge city.

3) I personally prefer Scots Guard, but its all down to preference.

4) Its not essential, personally I would avoid them because French gunners lack the range to really be useful against that particular opponent. But again, if you want to then do it, its certainly not impossible.

5) They will spawn in the east and attack whatever is nearby in order to form an empire, typically aiming for the main cities in the area such as Constantinople, Kiev etc. I wouldnt expect them to target you specifically.

**Evolution** · January 19, 2008, 09:33 AM

Mounted sergeants.

**Sher Khan** · January 19, 2008, 03:55 PM

Well, rather late, but I'll be moving this to the Battle Planning forum, so that we may discuss our unit strategies where we should.

**Captain Spanky** · January 20, 2008, 08:32 AM

On the topic of cavalry: How do people think Tsars Guard measure out? Their charge isnt too great, but they have ridiculously high stats, and even more one upgraded.