Sex, Commitment, Relationship

[hellas1]

Howdy all,
Theists, Deists and Atheists alike!

My new flava' of topic revolves around the issues of sex, commitment and relationships, each of which I'll define and ask your logical, not idiotic/pedantic/childish/silly views on:

A. Sex: Sex and intimacy between a man and a woman.

How does one person FULLY respect another with understanding?

B. Commitment: Devoted to another (sexually, emotionally, financially, etc. through the B.S. and the good times.

How does someone "commit" to another in such a way as to not encroach upon the rights of another and also not "lose oneself" in another person?

C. Relationship: Understanding with heart and mind that EVERY person is "related" biologically and thus IS, for you Christians/Jews/Muslims/Deists/Atheists "our brothers'/sisters' keeper" per se.
All humans are related, as this is scientifically proven. Moot point.

How does someone combine the 2 prior points (A + B) to create, fashion, construct a harmonious whole humanity? By "whole" I mean a "Holistic" or in other words, using the German word "Gestalt," understanding that which is starkly true of the human being, the human experience.

Comments.......please

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well the first problem is that you are assuming that monogamy is the natural instinct of homo sapiens sapiens. A view the majority of history starkly contrasts.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

If the girl's pretty, I'l have sex with her. Case closed.

[HopliteElite]

A. Sex: Sex and intimacy between a man and a woman.

How does one person FULLY respect another with understanding?

First off, though it may sound crude, all I need to "understand" about a woman to have sex with her is where her vagina is. This notion that there must be this deep respect and understanding for sex to occur is archaic. Quite frankly, I have never respected a female that I've had sex with but I won't judge people who do respect their sexual partners, unless they try to force their sentimental beliefs upon me.

B. Commitment: Devoted to another (sexually, emotionally, financially, etc. through the B.S. and the good times.

How does someone "commit" to another in such a way as to not encroach upon the rights of another and also not "lose oneself" in another person?

Commitment is another archaic notion. Humans are not monogamous by nature. Marriage and the idea of commitment was created by the state to help facilitate more stability within society. Sex does not require commitment. I feel bad for people that cannot engage in sexual activities without some form of pitiful commitment; dating, relationship, engagement, marriage. These are self made prisons that are unnecessary.

How does someone combine the 2 prior points (A + B) to create, fashion, construct a harmonious whole humanity?

To put it bluntly none of the flowery sentiments and questions posed within A and B could possibly lead to a harmonious world. A harmonious world will realisticly never be achieved but if one were to be achieved it would be achieved through the bloody conquest of one superpower, forming a world of allied states answering to the central authority. Love, relationships, and other such foolish notions actually cause more problems than they could ever eradicate.

[Medicus]

First off, though it may sound crude, all I need to "understand" about a woman to have sex with her is where her vagina is. This notion that there must be this deep respect and understanding for sex to occur is archaic. Quite frankly, I have never respected a female that I've had sex with but I won't judge people who do respect their sexual partners, unless they try to force their sentimental beliefs upon me.

Commitment is another archaic notion. Humans are not monogamous by nature. Marriage and the idea of commitment was created by the state to help facilitate more stability within society. Sex does not require commitment. I feel bad for people that cannot engage in sexual activities without some form of pitiful commitment; dating, relationship, engagement, marriage. These are self made prisons that are unnecessary.

To put it bluntly none of the flowery sentiments and questions posed within A and B could possibly lead to a harmonious world. A harmonious world will realisticly never be achieved but if one were to be achieved it would be achieved through the bloody conquest of one superpower, forming a world of allied states answering to the central authority. Love, relationships, and other such foolish notions actually cause more problems than they could ever eradicate.

I don't understand how some men actually like girls and want to spend time with them unless they are working towards the goal of sex. Once sex is achieved, what other reason is there to spend time with the female? Why would you be more jealous of a girl's time and company being robbed from you than her body and the sexual gratification it could bring you? Unfathomable.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a new champion. HopliteElite is now the biggest male chauvinist on this board. Your trophy has been designed around your beliefs; it consists of a lone cow being molested by a fat old man, being lead into the killing machines, while another cow waits in line.

I'm with Richard on the rest.

And people - please, please live together and get married before pumping out babies. Please.

[Shaun]

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a new champion. HopliteElite is now the biggest male chauvinist on this board. Your trophy has been designed around your beliefs; it consists of a lone cow being molested by a fat old man, being lead into the killing machines, while another cow waits in line.

Doctor, everything that HopliteElite says about women is damned true. That's the sad reality - woman really are how HopliteElite describes them.

From your post, I'm going to have to assume that your success, sexually and emotionally, with the opposite sex isn't that much.

I was on that boat; I wasn't at all successful with woman until I 'got it', as they say. I used to think that woman were nice, pleasant, trustworthy, loyal and reliable creatures. I used to be able to respect woman, and not view them with disgust and pity.

But not now. Because woman are not loyal, they are not reliable and dependable, they are not pleasant and certainly not trustworthy (the only thing I could trust a woman to be is ... to be a woman, to be honest). They are the most competitive things I have seen (especially when in larger groups, if one gets a $100 item, her friend wants a $200 item, and so on); they are tremendously jealous and simply cannot have things not their own way; they lie and cheat if they can blame it one someone else, and in fact always try and place them blame something else - it's never their fault that they, say, cheated on their partner, it's either their partners fault or the 'other' man's fault. The thing is, woman think and act based on emotion; not logic, rational thinking or common sense. That is why woman are so prone to emotional outbursts. They will cheat if their emotions want them to and if they can blame someone else for it. They are basically slaves to their emotions, and that is what makes them so untrustworthy. And to make things worse, their emotions are not even logical.

That is why, traditionally, men have always been in charge of things. It makes sense when you think about it. That is why, in a successful relationship, the man is always leading, and his the final say. Just like why woman hate a man who, when dancing, doesn't lead. Woman need to be lead. That is why Victorian societies and today's Arab societies were structured the way they were - to keep woman loyal and in check. I even heard that last part from a female. And this as well: any woman will cheat if her emotions feel like it and she can then blame someone/something else for it.

Once you 'get it', I guarantee that your success with woman will greatly increase. But ignorance is bliss; I also wish that I could return to this blissful state and be able to treat woman the way I would treat a man, but I can't. The evidence that woman are like this is all around me: just the other day (last day of school before holidays) I blatantly seen the typical "blame it on someone else" attitude from a girl I sit beside. She had been sacked for not turning up to work. But it wasn't her fault - it was the boss's fault for not telling her that she had work that day. I mean, she couldn't have, say, asked when she was working again, or checked the rotas or whatever. She wasn't even reliable enough to check the rotas ...

But once you realise this and don't expect a woman to be anything more than a woman then you'll be much happier. It's confusing at first, though. I was confused tremendously when I seen my guy friends get dumped by their girlfriends for a drug dealer, who beats the living **** out of them weekly, cheats on them and doesn't spend a penny on them. That's messed up, and when they came crying back to my friends (who took them back, initially) I could not respect them for making such an awful decision. Of course, it wasn't long until they were back with the druggies, getting beaten up. But it's a shame because she doesn't know any better. She is controlled by emotions and not common sense or logic. The druggies, and other assorted badasses, know how to control these emotions. That's why the poor woman keep coming back for round two. Sad but true.

And that is exactly why I dislike spending time with girls unless we are having sex. There is no reason to, and woman seem to be inferior to men based on men's standards. While do generally disagree with sites like dontmarry.com (most woman wisen up in their 30's and 40's, and by the time they reach grandmother age probably do think logically as well as emotionally) and menarebetterthanwomen.com (although, as I said before, woman are inferior to men based on men's standards - no way in hell would I have a male friend who is anything like described above!) because they were probably written by nice guys who got walked all over and bankrupted by ex-girlfriends, they have a point.

We may be 'male chauvinists' but we have it right, and are saving ourselves from many possible future heartaches, divorces and conflict (woman always bring in others into their conflicts, and if you can volunteer yourself - when she's discussing problems, it's not 'you'; it's 'us' - you can get closer to her and hopefully into her panties).

[Gwendylyn]

It's all cool to think women should all be trustful, reliable, sensible, kind, etcetera. It's all cool to hate all of them for being evil and manipulative and uncaring. Those comments say far more about the writer than women: a willingness to generalize half the human population away into one description rather than treat and judge them as individuals.

News flash: the differences among individuals are MUCH higher than the difference between gender populations.

But once you realise this and don't expect a woman to be anything more than a woman then you'll be much happier.

It'd be totally awesome to treat a woman as a person.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a new champion. HopliteElite is now the biggest male chauvinist on this board.

HopeliteElite has a very long way to go before getting that title.

[HopliteElite]

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a new champion. HopliteElite is now the biggest male chauvinist on this board.

Nothing I said was chauvanistic. I did not call women inferior, only that I personally do not seem able to develop affectionate feelings for women beyond physical ones and that I do not understand how other men could.

The fact is, I am more an advocate for equal rights than men like yourself ever could be. You want to tie down one woman and turn her into a baby producing factory so you can feel good and honorable. I think we should all feel sexually liberated enough to engage in the kinds of behavior that I advocate. The women I have intercourse with are just like me, looking for a good time and I appreciate and respect their liberated and modern outlook on life. I do not need to commit to have sex and there are many women just like me, which is why I am able to live the way I do. I feel nothing but disdain for the mentality that advocates sexual repression and attempts to force others to adhere to the constraining bonds of manmade prisons in order to justify engaging in one of the most natural behaviors we can engage in, sex.

HopeliteElite has a very long way to go before getting that title.

Indeed. I hope I've cleared the air about my stance. It is not one of inequality but rather one of total sexual equality where we should all just enjoy the pleasures of the flesh without feeling required to enter into legal and verbal contracts with one another.

Methinks Hopilite Elite is secretly lonely

Sometimes I do wonder what it would feel like to be loved and to love but it is not wistful thinking. I feel like an anthropologist thinking about a strange ritual and practice he witnessed while observing a primitive people. I do not understand it and I'd like to but I do not have any wish to engage in it. I look at love as a form of socially induced mental illness and as a psychology major, I'd really enjoy learning how to cure it.

@Shaun

I think we may be on a different page about the nature of women, as I do not actively disdain or distrust them. I view the female as a sexual object, just I'd like the female to view the male as a sexual object. I do not think women need to be led but rather men and women need to rise about gender roles, except the one most important role, which is that we must have sex in order to survive (and for other very important reasons, such as pleasure, stress release, etc...) It sounds like you've lost your faith in women but your faith was based upon false ideals created by societies over time. Try to stop looking at women as either good or bad and just look at them as objects to give you pleasure and look at yourself as an object to give them pleasure. Just don't try to go beyond physical pleasure or you fall right back into the rut of love and affection that society wants to push upon us all.

[Shaun]

It's all cool to think women should all be trustful, reliable, sensible, kind, etcetera. It's all cool to hate all of them for being evil and manipulative and uncaring. Those comments say far more about the writer than women: a willingness to generalize half the human population away into one description rather than treat and judge them as individuals.

Or perhaps I'm just seeing the facts. It's funny you mention this, because, as much as I hate routines and chat-up lines, the same ones work on 98% of woman I've encountered. This sounds too robotic and mechanical, but I literally have a mental check list which I use when meeting woman. Say something cocky and funny to get her interested, check; cement her position as lower than mine and hence my value above hers, check; refrain from compliments almost completely, instead slowly taking down her self confidence, check; create impression that I'm the prize, check; get phone number, check; meet-up again, check; put on some push-pull game, check; plunder her insides, check; then probably not see her again as I've gotten what I wanted from her.

News flash: the differences among individuals are MUCH higher than the difference between gender populations.

No they're not. Woman are much more slaves to their emotions than men. Men are much more aggressive and assertive than woman. Woman are less reliable and loyal than men. Etcetera. As I've said, the almost exact thing works on almost 100% of woman. Well, those woman who are more feminist leaning require a bit more work, effort and dates in order to drop their panties. Basically all the same, and the same stuff works just as regardless if the some is single, has a boyfriend or is married; a lot of my older and more experienced friends have gotten plenty of married woman to spread their legs, or plenty of girlfriends to slip them their number whilst their boyfriend is in the bathroom/whatever. Woman have no loyalty; they only go where their emotions tell them.

It'd be totally awesome to treat a woman as a person.

Hmm. Only woman relatives. Other than that, no.

HopeliteElite has a very long way to go before getting that title.

Who has that title?

Methinks Hopilite Elite is secretly lonely

And it sounds like shaun's had a bad experience at some point

Naturally, I've had a bad experience. That's what got me into 'the game'.

[Richard]

I differentiate between "love" and "lust". How does knocking someone up (though that isn't usually the goal these days, in fact the idea is NOT to do that) prove you love them? It satisfys a natural urge, like eating and sleeping and socialising. Having strong affectionate feelings towards someone and wanting to be with them is love; the part about sex being intertwined with love seems more cultural than anything. I'm sure we'd see a lot more homogenuity between cultures (like we do regarding territory/theft, family/clan, hygeine, and so on) if the two were so connected. I get more jealous with someone spending time with a girl I like than someone banging her (I believe I'm atypical of western civilisation in this respect, but not by a significant margin). "Loving" someone is feeling you want to be with them, "lust" is feeling horny. Though, the two often work in concert; you're more likely to fall in love with 'hot chicks' and also want to have sex with 'hot chicks'...I imagine we feel this so we have an additional desire (other than paternal instinct) to remain with the female while she raises the child. I must ponder this last part further.

The dynamics of all this change significantly when raising children isn't a consideration at the time. If you don't intend to reproduce (though most humans do at some stage), the relationship between sex and commitment and love is not particularly significant.

Humans appear to be able to CHOOSE whether they're monagamous or not, and have mechanisms in place for both situations, at least from my observations. Like how we can choose when to eat and drink, where most other animals (and indeed pre-modern humans) woul have had to take whatever they got at every opportunity. Being able to put off reproduction, and choose how we raise the children, is the same thing. We can adapt to situations very well. Tribe hit by plague? No problem, just knock up a few more girls than you normally would.

[HopliteElite]

I get more jealous with someone spending time with a girl I like than someone banging her (I believe I'm atypical of western civilisation in this respect, but not by a significant margin). "Loving" someone is feeling you want to be with them, "lust" is feeling horny.

I don't understand how some men actually like girls and want to spend time with them unless they are working towards the goal of sex. Once sex is achieved, what other reason is there to spend time with the female? Why would you be more jealous of a girl's time and company being robbed from you than her body and the sexual gratification it could bring you? Unfathomable.

[Richard]

Well that's what makes me think that "love" and "lust" are indeed different psychological things, at least for some people. I mean, that's a huge waste of time and money just for sex when you could get it from some slut you met at a party with far less effort for people who's ultimate goal in a relationship IS sex. I think other cultural things (and some cultural baggage, I dare call it) can have an effect on that (some aspects of religion, for example). I mean, if a man believes he can ONLY have sex with ONE girl who he has to be commited too, he'll probably avoid the bar sluts.

[hellheaven1987]

Bad, I am this kind of people...:hmmm:

Anyway, personally I do believe sex and love are two things and should not be connected, but my personal code stop me to think this way...

[Richard]

Don't see why you need to get married—piece of paper won't make any difference, if you truly intend to stay together.
The painful legal repurcussions of divorce (you know, having to have half the family dog each etc) provide a useful incentive to remain together however. But if all that's keeping you together is who gets to keep the couch you probably should split up anyway...that's hardly a loving family environment is it.

[12345abcd3]

Methinks Hopilite Elite is secretly lonely

And it sounds like shaun's had a bad experience at some point

[King of Axum]

Damm shaun youse a playa....

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Jesus, what are you people? Miss Havisham's lesser known children?

[Earl of Rochester]

Humans are animals, yet unlike any other animal known to us, we are persons as well. Sex is where the animal and personal intermix combining our animalistic lust with our truly human concept of love. Sex can fulfill both of these drives or in some cases only one. The question that has long plagued humanity is love required for sex and if so how do you define love.

Traditionally the answer is yes, and marriage is how you define it. Now many here will speak against tradition. Tradition is forced on us by society. This sounds very intellectual, but it is in fact childish. There is not some sinister force behind tradition that seeks to make you miserable. Sure there are negative traditions, but many traditions have started since the begging of humanity because they fulfill basic needs of humans. In modern society we have felt the need to strip down traditions because traditions are "bad" instead of actually analysizing the positives versus the negatives of these traditions. The result? The rise in people being discontent with life and consequently ever rising suicide rates. Our society has lost a sense of its self because it has removed itself from the traditions that held society together.

That being said I don't feel that sex without love is bad. It is just completely inferior to sex with love. It is only half of what sex is supposed to be. It only fulfills the animal, which is but half of what we are. It is why so many seek sex with love and hold onto it once they get it. That is why people attempt relationships instead of merely hooking up with a prostitute. Im quite certain that people making use of prostitutes get far less enjoyment out of sex than two lovers. Sure the physical is satisfied, but the mental is not.

Anyways I could contribute a lot more on the subject, but Im done for now.

Basically the point. Sex outside of a commitment fine. Sex with a commitment is better and should be the goal. This is a time tested fact. ***** and moan about traditions, society etc, this a self-evident fact. Simply look around.



And Shaun, Im sorry but you completely misunderstand humanity. Sure many girls are as you describe, but an equal number of men are. People as a general rule are pretty deceptive, to others, and to themselves.

[HopliteElite]

That being said I don't feel that sex without love is bad. It is just completely inferior to sex with love. It is only half of what sex is supposed to be.

While I respect your opinion I must disagree. Sex is sex, period. It is the physical act of reproduction which feels great because evolution wants us to reproduce. If it felt like needles poking at us we would not have have sex and would die out but since it feels so good we are positively reinforced to engage in sexual behavior. The fact is, sex feels good and it is only physical. All other meaning has been added by humans throughout time to make the primitive and wild act of sex seem more "civilized".

[Zephrelial]

Relationships between the opposite sexes and the prolonging of the continuation of those relations form due to the lack of alternatives,especially from the perspective of men..

Honestly gentlemen,how many of you would get stuck in a relationship,provided that you actually had a harem?

The concept of relationship/s does EXIST because we are part of the majority that doesn't hold the priviliges of having access to dozens of varied beauties;that can present uncountable gifts both about sexuality and character...

The teachings of the modern age is distributed to the average men,such as ourselves via in femme magazines or men magazines,teaching us how to be in A relationship,staying loyal,be happy with what you got etc.. But this is just a wily deception and nothing more...

The modern Sultans and Kings of our dearest(sarcasm!) modern age choose to endulge and drown themselves in an ocean of woman,all of them being superior in everysense to the women whom many of us have ever interacted with...

A quick example.. A russian millionaire(I won't adhere his name) spents a week in Turkey,Bodrum with 7 of his friends.. They close the whole of the hotel for a full week paying twice the normal price.. In total they are 8 men..

And take a guess how many gals arrive the next day,after they've started their holiday?

Well,here is the number:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

80

About this number.. Rest assured I kid you not,the info I got from a reliable source.I think that explains it all.And believe me those girls are probably hand picked,creme de la creme of the whole lot..

Now go ahead and claim how flawed is my thinking,but no thank you.. I don't need phsychological defense mechanisms as most people require..