Ships in Broken Crescent

[Faris ad Din]

I am uncertain if this question has been asked before, but I did a prelimary search of this forum and found nothing of the sort. So here goes:

What is planned in terms of ships and naval recruitment systems for the various factions in BC? Will it use the same tiers and units for Middle Eastern factions in vanilla (dhows, war galleys, laternas, baghlahs) and the same buildings (port, shipwright, docklands)? Will all factions be given the same technology and progression trees then? Would some factions be given advantages in ship recruitment costs and building time at the least?

For one this is not a very pressing matter, as real time player-controlled naval combat is not present in M2:TW to begin with. I'm sure all you naval warfare enthusiasts would be waiting for Empire: Total War for both vanilla naval combat, not to mention any mods with naval components. But I thought it'd be important to ask, as BC covers a very diverse range of factions in terms of culture, technology and especially naval traditions. In particular I thought of this while reading over the preview thread for the Imamate of Oman.

The factions with the strongest naval traditions would be the Eastern Roman Empire on the Mediterranean with one of the most powerful and largest navies with fire ships, followed by the Imamate of Oman on the Red Sea with strong ties to naval trade, a shipbuilding and maritime industry (though I am uncertain of any naval military traditions Arab nations had in that area). The Abbasid Caliphate with its connection to the Persian (Arab) Gulf at Basra and the general area would probably have some maritime development as well.

The Arab regions with the greatest historical renown with regards to maritime trade and exploration would be that bordering the Persian Gulf, around Kuwait, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates (represented in-game as "Jubayl".) It had a long tradition of pearl diving for one, and a common girl's name to this day in the region is "Lulwa" or pearl. Its merchants sailed all over and past the Indian Ocean, even as far as Korea (it was Arab merchants, unable to pronounce the name of the Korean kingdom "Go-ryo" 918-1392 who gave "Korea" its international name).

Second, there has been a long track record of piracy in the same regions rich in sea trade, down to the present day: pirates hailed from Somalia and Banda Aceh in Indonesia. I would think that even some civilian trade ships would have crews trained in combat at sea to defend themselves and their cargo.

I would also think that some western Indian states would have formed strong maritime traditions, as they profited from trading goods westwards along the trade routes of the time. I have the (unevidenced) impression that most trade was conducted by merchants of Arab and Persian Gulf origin, though if India had flourishing ports, it had to have established shipbuilding and sailing industries of its own.

And then to be sure, many of the other factions in BC have much weaker maritime traditions. Ethiopia for one fell into relative poverty after Muslims took over its thriving seaport of Adulis around the 700s, in response to Ethiopian attacks on Jeddah, and remained a landlocked and mountainous country for the next 1,200 years. The Kingdom of Jerusalem, on the other hand, may have a more multi-faceted connection to naval power, as it may not have a strong native sailing tradition, but rather a dependence on Italian traders and transport who were relied upon to bring Crusader reinforcements by sea. Hence, they were given generous concessions and exclusive zones of control by the sea in exchange for their support. We have various factions which border the ocean, and then we have factions like the Kypchaks which probably have no accountable maritime traditions at all.

So far I haven't said anything significant in terms of naval military history, but I can't think of anything substantial for the zone covered by BC off the top of my head. That's why I've mentioned only naval trading history and a bit of pirating history... so I'm leaving the rest to the developers and community to discuss.

Ma'a salaama!

[Miraj]

Thanks for the great info Faris, its a good question.

Currently the Naval system will be quite bland and basically vanilla in BC. One of the reasons is that a vast majority of our factions and the mod in general is pretty land focused. Even the mediteranean regions won't be that important given the fact that BC has no western Europe or important states like Venice that are critical to a real important mediteranen naval zone.

In the future we'll definitely create some unit ship "cards" to represent some interesting new ships for factions like Oman and ERE. But for now, its near the bottom of my priority list.

[Faris ad Din]

Thanks Mirage! At the least, that was more than I could have hoped for. Since M2:TW has a very undeveloped naval combat system to begin with, I was assuming that not much time would be devoted to creating a more complex naval system. But if colorful factions like the Imamate of Oman would get perhaps a few unique naval units with new cards, if only for the purpose of variety in the future, that'd be a definite PLUS and no loss.

If you ever do implement such a thing, please, please, also extend the map down to Aden and Dar-es-Salaam to allow ships to pass from the Red Sea to the Indian Ocean! It's also not very important for the land-focused strategy and warfare of the region/time period but it'll be another factor that brings the mod from "outstanding" to "godliness."

[Miraj]

I've cheated and created a "path way" between the Red Sea and Indian Ocean a while back.

[Salah-ud-Din]

Hey Faris, you're muslim too I'm guessing!

Great to have you here.

(and Eid Mubarak!)

[Faris ad Din]

Wonderful, Mirage! I'm not a true naval history fanatic, but I always enjoyed the maritime aspect of historical strategy games.

Oh, and I'm not a Muslim, Salah-Ud-Din. I'm a Korean American born a Christian but who has a deep interest in Middle Eastern and Muslim history and culture, and has spent some time learning Arabic. I technically have no religion, but I'm open to all. Eid Mubarak liqa! (to you too?)

[boerekovic]

Awesome.
I always loved the Levantine in the Vanilla Maps of RTW and M2TW, because
the breeze of Winds you could hear and the heat you could feel.
Now that Picture is just like that feeling,now i just need to hear that wind breeze...relax...
*snores*

[Basileos]

I've cheated and created a "path way" between the Red Sea and Indian Ocean a while back.

This is a good example that not all cheats are bad!
Excelent idea mirage