A Question for The Future

[Exarch]

take a look at christianity, specifically catholicism and u can see the church has incorporated a lot from other pagan religions in order to facilitate the conversion of other europeans ie the christmas tree as a tree of life, easter eggs as a pagan fertility symbol, the virgin birth so common among a lot of pagan religions and the alter and the eucharist which were rituals of pagain religions.

first q: christians who are still aware of this, still treat all their rituals and going to church as 'following god' , 'christian' and 'holy'. despite the fact that it's not mentioned in the bible. are they aware of this blatant doublethink and the fabrication of their spiritual beliefs?

Intermission: by nature, the christian religion is viral-it spreads as rapidly as the common cold simply becasue it advocates that its adherants preach, rather than practice their religion-hell to practice their religion is to preach it!. the emphasis is on converting others, sometimes called 'witnessing'.
not just that, it's a perfectly natural human developmental process to becoem spiritual, but all too often, u get preachers/reverands/missionaries who take that naive young mind and turn it into a born again dogmatic inflexible you're-either-with-us-or-against-us persecution complex type ...

2nd q: will christianity be 'incorporated' into a different religion much as the roman religion was pretty much incorporated into christianity?

[IndianPrince]

I say that is an interesting question (the 2nd one) and i have asked that to myself many times. But probably because it is so popular now & so global that there is little chance of it being incorporated into another religion. Also these days with the ranks of atheism & agnosticism swelling up and people disliking any form of conversion i think there will be no direct threat to christianity for a long time except some radicalists i guess. Anyways ... i have nothing personal against christianity & thus dont mind it staying the way it is (except i guess the crazy "creationist" ****)

Prince

[Ragabash]

I can give you a fast answer for second one.

Christian traditions and the bible are a source for many religions today. Perhaps the most largest, and best known religion that could be considered as a sub-christian/judean religion is Islam.

Or did I misunderstood your question completely?

[Exarch]

I can give you a fast answer for second one.

Christian traditions and the bible are a source for many religions today. Perhaps the most largest, and best known religion that could be considered as a sub-christian/judean religion is Islam.

many religions? source of many religions? could u name some pls, besides the church of the flying spaghetti monster
it is highly erroneous to believe that the judeo-christian religions were mother to all religions in the world.
wat about buddhism or taoism which predates christinaity, or even judaism?
or hinduism wit its vast pantheon of gods and goddesses.

Or did I misunderstood your question completely?

i think ur on the rite track, but in the second q, i was asking if, in the future, christianity, might become 'incorporated' into a different religion on the rise...ike say invisible pink unicornism

further, take a look at this:
http://www.4truth.net/site/c.hiKXLbP..._Religions.htm
this is a site whereby evangelists gain tips in which to subvert other religions in order to 'convert' other ppls'.
u'll notice they dont care much about making stuff up, to make it sound all the more pleasing to the target and hence, facilitate a more speedy conversion to christianity

[Earl of Rochester]

There is a difference between traditions and beliefs. Christians have incorporated pagan traditions such as the Christmas tree, but these things have zero to do with beliefs. Christians don't believe they have Christmas trees because God willed it, these are just cultural things. Christians realize this.

Now as for the belief stealing you are wrong. Virgin births are not really typical in pagan mythology and regardless common ideas can emerge completely independently from each other. Many cultures have a great flood story, that does not mean they copied eachother. It just means humans think the same way.

Roman religion was not incorporated into Christianity. Please find roman beliefs present in Christianity? And what exactly is Roman religion? You mean mithrasism? The mystery cult of Mithras has very little to do with Christianity. Yes things like the date of Christmas may have been borrowed, but again these are tradition things. They have zero to do with the actual religion.

[Ragabash]

many religions? source of many religions? could u name some pls, besides the church of the flying spaghetti monster
it is highly erroneous to believe that the judeo-christian religions were mother to all religions in the world.
wat about buddhism or taoism which predates christinaity, or even judaism?
or hinduism wit its vast pantheon of gods and goddesses.

I never said that judeo-christian religions are mother of all religions; this something you said, not me. What I said was; that christianity, and its teachings has been already incorporated into whole different religions. And Islam can be said to be one of them, altough not as purely as many smaller religious movements.

Jehovah's Witnesses are perfect example of Christian new religious movements. There are hundreads, if not thousands religious movements that are based on a christian teachings.

[Exarch]

I never said that judeo-christian religions are mother of all religions; this something you said, not me. What I said was; that christianity, and its teachings has been already incorporated into whole different religions. And Islam can be said to be one of them, altough not as purely as many smaller religious movements.

Jehovah's Witnesses are perfect example of Christian new religious movements. There are hundreads, if not thousands religious movements that are based on a christian teachings.

we appear to have misunderstood one another; i've always placed jehovah's witnesses and pentecostals, baptists etc all as christian, so i misunderstoof you when u mentioned other religions.
i do see the distinctions between them all, but they are all still christian to me, considering their worship of jesus christ.

There is a difference between traditions and beliefs. Christians have incorporated pagan traditions such as the Christmas tree, but these things have zero to do with beliefs. Christians don't believe they have Christmas trees because God willed it, these are just cultural things. Christians realize this.

it jsut seems confusing when u have a bible that preaches against idolatry yet u have some christian groups which venerate the remains of saints.
but b4 we confuse religion with culture, the christmas tree was originally representative of the world tree Yggdrasil from the norse religion common amongst the ancient germans; that's a clear cut example of christianity incorporating a pagan religious belief with its own. Nowhere in the bible is there a world tree, and the tree of life which eve ate from plays no part in the nativity which is, of course the reason why christians celebrate xmas.

Now as for the belief stealing you are wrong.

i object, but pls go on. and refer above. it aint stealin' it's borrowing without asking

Virgin births are not really typical in pagan mythology and regardless common ideas can emerge completely independently from each other. Many cultures have a great flood story, that does not mean they copied eachother. It just means humans think the same way.

it doesnt necessarily mean that they think the same; it just means that their ancestors experienced highly catastrophic floods which made a great impression on the collective psyche of the survivors, such that the flood event became a part of their history and mythology. i dont think i need to tell u how ancient history and mythology can become blurred.
from wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_m...ries_of_origin

some historians point out that early civilized cultures lived in the fertile flood plains along river basins such as the Nile in Egypt and the Tigris-Euphrates river basin of Mesopotamia (in present day Iraq). The latter is especially prone to violent flash floods, and extensive traces of riverine silt interrupt human settlements at a number of southern Iraqi settlements. It is possible that such peoples would have deep memories of floods and have developed mythologies surrounding floods to explain and cope with an integral part of their lives. To these ancient cultures, a flood that covered their known world, from horizon to horizon, would likely be considered local flooding by First World standards instead of literally the entire planet. Scholars point out that most cultures living in areas where flooding was less likely to occur did not have flood myths of their own. These observations, coupled with the human tendency to make stories more dramatic than events originally warranted, are all the points most mythology scholars feel is necessary to explain how myths of world-destroying, cataclysmatic floods evolved

now about the date of xmas, mithraism-which was a direct competing religion in rome around the time the christian church was still embryonic- as well as the cult of sol invictus shared the 25th of december as the b'days of their respective gods. why is it that we celebate jesus' b'day on that date when other historical sources differ in accounts, placing jesus' birth on noverm or jan etc, other than dec 25th.

Roman religion was not incorporated into Christianity. Please find roman beliefs present in Christianity? And what exactly is Roman religion? You mean mithrasism? The mystery cult of Mithras has very little to do with Christianity. Yes things like the date of Christmas may have been borrowed, but again these are tradition things. They have zero to do with the actual religion

so the typical christian view of the devil ie bloke with horns and gots legs had nothing to do with the church's possible demonisation of the pagan god Pan? despite the bible not mentioning anything about lucifer's goats legs or horns.
the roman religion was originally a based offa the ancient greek religion of the pantheon of mt olympus, until the emperor's wanted to be worshipped as gods. that aside, u only hafta scrape the surface and see where christianity has incorporated a whole heap of mythos from other religions.
the virgin birth, in the sense that god came and impregnated mary has echoes with zoroastrianism and the many instances of Zeus' date rape incidences in much of greek mythology.

[Ragabash]

we appear to have misunderstood one another; i've always placed jehovah's witnesses and pentecostals, baptists etc all as christian, so i misunderstoof you when u mentioned other religions.
i do see the distinctions between them all, but they are all still christian to me, considering their worship of jesus christ.

How about Rastafari's for an example. Are those christians in your eyes?

There are many religions based on christians teachings and traditions, but not all can be considered as christian itself.

[Maverick]

Exarch, I think the main problem with your arguments is that you haven't included a single quote from the new testament to support them. I believe that is Earl of Rochester's point as well, I agree that Christian tradition was influenced by Paganism in some respects but there is little evidence of Christian doctrine being influenced i.e. the tradition of the three wise men is likely inspired by a pre-Christian myth but it has no place in the bible. So to answer your first question I don't think the knowledge that the three wise men were borrowed for example has much affect on a person's faith since it is simply a tradition, not a core belief.

There is also the fact that there are fewer and fewer devout Christians and more "love thy neighbor" Christians who really couldn't care less about the origins of the faith or fine points of doctrine. As we are all aware, the authenticity and integrity of the Church over the last millenium have taken a severe blow with Popes like Alexander VI etc. and so I think Christians are almost preconditioned at this point to reject anything besides the most fundamental belief that Christ saves. Your second question has a very simple answer, Christianity (I assume you mean Catholicism) has already been incorporated into many different religions already like Mormonism, Jehova's Witness etc.

Whether or not it will be incorporated into an entirely different set of beliefs is debatable. I think it's very possible since Jesus has become more of a symbol and less of a teacher over time. I think the majority of love they neighbor Christians are happy being secular Christians but I still think it's possible that a new faith, maybe one that incorporates more liberal ideals like gay marriage may interest a lot of people.

As you said the Christians have done a heck of a job evangelizing the faith around the world so I don't believe there will be any new major religion that doesn't incorporate Jesus in some way or another in the foreseeable future. That being said, most of what Jesus said is very interpretive so it's possible for someone to invent a radical new faith just like Peter son of Jonah and Joseph Smith did so yes, I believe the figure of Jesus at least can very easily be incorporated into a new set of beliefs in the future.

[Ummon]

Guénon in "Symbols of the Sacred Science" asserts that there is no such thing as a religion separate from another, although the reason why he asserts it is fully religious. As old as his stance may be, it has deeper implications than the simplistic assertion "Christians copied pagans".