Has Israel stopped acting like Satan's hired muscle?

[Tajir]

I haven't heard much coming out of it; no blowing up entire blocks or leveling entire cities for one or two men or for fun...none of that, for months, has Israel become sane now?

Maybe I'm not paying attention, but has anyone heard any apocalyptic news coming out of Satan's lair Olmert's office?

Just wondering...:hmmm:

[crazyj]

I wish I could give negative rep.

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

I wish I could give negative rep.

I second that.

No blowing up school busses for fun, no bombing civilian Israelis... oh wait... nevermind. *cough* *cough*

See, it's easy.

[Tajir]

Am I such a villain for stating some random opinions? :hmmm:

Are you going to raid my house and accidentally kill my twelve children too? :hmmm:

[hellheaven1987]

No, I would sell the boys as slaves and keep the girls for my personal use.

Just kidding, but the reduce of air raids are probably due to the civil war between Fatah and Hamas, so less suicide bombings were happened and less air raid revenges were needed.

[Tajir]

You know, I think this topic is misunderstood.

I am complimenting Israel for reducing its blood lust. One day, I can expect Olmert's horns to be short enough for him to comb over them.

One day.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

You know, I think this topic is misunderstood.

I am complimenting Israel for reducing its blood lust. One day, I can expect Olmert's horns to be short enough for him to comb over them.

One day.

No, this thread isn't understood. You're acting as if Israel is doing unholy work by combating Palestinian militants and Hezbollah. Those poor Palestinians are martyring themselves.

Does Israel only do saintly works? No.

The problem is you're blaming Israel but ignoring the atrocities committed by Islamic militants. Coincidence? I'm doubtful.

[danzig]

Am I such a villain for stating some random opinions? :hmmm:

You are when they are clearly biased.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Everyone's view is biased, so get off that high horse, you're head's not getting enough oxygen.

[danzig]

Everyone's view is biased, so get off that high horse, you're head's not getting enough oxygen.

Ok fine so if someone posts a thread with a title have muslims stop being uncivilized animals would that be ok? His thread is troll bait nothing more nothing less and if you cant see that I suggest you take your head out of the sand. Anytime someones "opinion" involves needless, idiotic name calling or labeling of an entire group of people its nothing more then an attempt to troll and shows inability of the person to exert the tiniest bit of mental energy to post something intelligent. Oh and wont bother reporting your little flame there either.

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

Am I such a villain for stating some random opinions? :hmmm:

Are you going to raid my house and accidentally kill my twelve children too? :hmmm:

Nah, I'll just bomb their school buss hamas style.

[Oswald von Wolkenstein]

Am I such a villain for stating some random opinions? :hmmm:

Are you going to raid my house and accidentally kill my twelve children too? :hmmm:

I think what boofhead was getting at is that the Israeli attacks are always in retaliation. There haven't been any terrorists attacks for a while (because the those who engage in them are too busy killing each other) and so there haven't been any Israeli actions for people to label as atrocities.

And these atrocities are often falsely attributed -- for example this boy was attacked and dosed with gasoline and burnt up in sectarian violence and these photos are often falsely held up and attributed to US chemical attacks -- which is a lie.

Now, before you go saying that the war conditions created by the U.S. are responsible for this attack, consider this:

1) This kind of stuff happened under Sadam
2) This kind of stuff doesn't seem to happen when westerners find themselves disagreeing on politics.

In short, the root of these problems lie with the culture that keeps reproducing them and that's not Israel and not the U.S.

Finally, in the early 90s the Israelis offered the Palestinians and Arafat everything they and he ever asked for and were flat out rejected, making it crystal clear that the only thing that they would settle for is the complete destruction of Israel -- it was at that point and in that environment that Sharon and his party came to power.

Don't forget that.

It was at that point that Palestinians lost all credibility and any sympathy I might have had for their leadership.

[mrmouth]

in the early 90s the Israelis offered the Palestinians and Arafat everything they and he ever asked for and were flat out rejected, making it crystal clear that the only thing that they would settle for is the complete destruction of Israel

Don't forget that.

Absolutely accurate, and absolutely maddening that the PLO didn't accept.

The Palestinians have been martyred, and kept in the conditions they live in time and again by their leaders. They have nobody else to blame when it comes down to it.

[Major.Stupidity]

Absolutely accurate, and absolutely maddening that the PLO didn't accept.

The Palestinians have been martyred, and kept in the conditions they live in time and again by their leaders. They have nobody else to blame when it comes down to it.

Yes, lets just blame the Palestinians, because really when it comes down to it, they are at the root of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[danzig]

Yes, lets just blame the Palestinians, because really when it comes down to it, they are at the root of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

A large part of the blame DOES fall on their shoulders, see this is where everyone tends to lose their minds....the problem doesnt fall soley on the shoulders of one side but neither side (or rather their defenders on TWC) want to accept any blame and instead push it aside. The Palenstians are far from blameless and so are the Israelis as well as both their neighbors who have done nothing but inflamed the situtation even more.

[mrmouth]

Yes, lets just blame the Palestinians, because really when it comes down to it, they are at the root of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

I didn't mention the Palestinians at all, just their leadership. A leadership that in its many forms, has in the past stated that their goal is nothing short of the destruction of the state of Israel and those lands being returned to Palestinians. A goal that has time and time again been supported by their actions, while lining their pockets with the money coming in from all over the Muslim world instead of building hospitals or feeding their people.

Your average Palestinian isn't the knucklehead taking hip shots at the IDF, or even supporting the resistance. Just as you average Israeli isn't a hardliner, or a settler trying desperately to hold on to all the land no matter what their governments policy. The majority of both of these people want peace, and are willing to sacrifice. The Palestinians have been forced by their own people to sacrifice, Israelis have sacrificed land won in war, and sacrificed much on the political end, but it is never enough in the eyes of the leaders of the Palestinian people.

[Snoopy]

I think what boofhead was getting at is that the Israeli attacks are always in retaliation. There haven't been any terrorists attacks for a while (because the those who engage in them are too busy killing each other) and so there haven't been any Israeli actions for people to label as atrocities.

And these atrocities are often falsely attributed -- for example this boy was attacked and dosed with gasoline and burnt up in sectarian violence and these photos are often falsely held up and attributed to US chemical attacks -- which is a lie.

Now, before you go saying that the war conditions created by the U.S. are responsible for this attack, consider this:

1) This kind of stuff happened under Sadam
2) This kind of stuff doesn't seem to happen when westerners find themselves disagreeing on politics.

In short, the root of these problems lie with the culture that keeps reproducing them and that's not Israel and not the U.S.

Finally, in the early 90s the Israelis offered the Palestinians and Arafat everything they and he ever asked for and were flat out rejected, making it crystal clear that the only thing that they would settle for is the complete destruction of Israel -- it was at that point and in that environment that Sharon and his party came to power.

Don't forget that.

It was at that point that Palestinians lost all credibility and any sympathy I might have had for their leadership.

About the peace accords:

In the 1990s:

The Palestinians were actually going to agree, however the Israeli president died. Then, hardcore Israelis whom didn't want to have to Oslo peace accords put into progress had a guy whom committed atrocities against Palestinians earlier *coughArielSharoncough* become prime minister. That wrecked the chances of peace there.

Camp David:

Was a rip off. Palestine would get West Bank and Gaza, though 9-10 % goes to Israel. Gaza and West Bank is only about 28% of the general area. The Arab-Israeli perceptions of what West Bank are loses another 5%, making it 88%. That means the Palestinians would be accepting 88% of 22%. Plus, there would be a wedge straight through the middle of West Bank, splitting it in two. Palestine would get East Jerusalem, however they wouldn't completely own many Arab neighborhoods, or the Airports, or water resources, or anything else of importance. Palestine would also not be allowed to create an army. Suddenly, Camp David doesn't seem so attractive. No world leader would agree to it from the Palestinian side. And the second Intifada was caused by annoyed Palestinians who thought the peace talks were taking to long and weren't working. It also helped when Ariel Sharon, a guy who committed war crimes during 1967, waltzed up to Temple Mount and annoying the Arabs by daring to walk around the Dome of Rock.

[Snoopy]

delete

[Mansa musa]

About the peace accords:

In the 1990s:

The Palestinians were actually going to agree, however the Israeli president died. Then, hardcore Israelis whom didn't want to have to Oslo peace accords put into progress had a guy whom committed atrocities against Palestinians earlier *coughArielSharoncough*. That wrecked the chances of peace there.

Camp David:

Was a rip off. Palestine would get West Bank and Gaza, though 9-10 % goes to Israel. Gaza and West Bank is only about 28% of the general area. The Arab-Israeli perceptions of what West Bank are loses another 5%, making it 88%. That means the Palestinians would be accepting 88% of 22%. Plus, there would be a wedge straight through the middle of West Bank, splitting it in two. Palestine would get East Jerusalem, however they wouldn't completely own many Arab neighborhoods, or the Airports, or water resources, or anything else of importance. Palestine would also not be allowed to create an army. Suddenly, Camp David doesn't seem so attractive. No world leader would agree to it from the Palestinian side. And the second Intifada was caused by annoyed Palestinians who thought the peace talks were taking to long and weren't working. It also helped when Ariel Sharon, a guy who committed war crimes during 1967, waltzed up to Temple Mount and annoying the Arabs by daring to walk around the Dome of Rock.

what israeli president hasn't comitted atrocities against palestinians?

[Oswald von Wolkenstein]

About the peace accords:

In the 1990s:

The Palestinians were actually going to agree, however the Israeli president died. Then, hardcore Israelis whom didn't want to have to Oslo peace accords put into progress had a guy whom committed atrocities against Palestinians earlier *coughArielSharoncough* become prime minister. That wrecked the chances of peace there.

Camp David:

Was a rip off.

1) Usually when a world leader "dies" by being shot a public event we refer to it as an assassination: Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was shot by a radical student opposed to the peace process. And both sides argue that neither was going to go the distance on the accord, and both are probably right.

2) That's the point that everyone's missing here -- the mess around Israel is a group effort and if you're going to place blame, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and several other nations have done at least as much as Israel, if not more, to make life difficult for the Palestinians and to make peace an impossibility, to say nothing of the fact that the Palestinians themselves bear guilt.

Remember this is the result of territory lost in a war. If you have sympathy for the Palestinians because they lost territory for consistenly siding with the losing team, from the Nazis to the Syrians to the Egyptians etc -- then you will totally feel fine if a native american a native australian, or an irishman blows your family to kingdom come because he's not happy with the results of some war or other.

Israel is there. It's staying there. If that's not the starting point of discussions peace will not happen. On the other hand, Israel is going to have to compromise and give up land.

Ultimately, I've always felt that this is the blood letting for greater powers. The U.S. investment in Israel is dwarfs all other foreign aid in total. On so many levels the fate of this area lies outside of Palestinian and Israeli hands.