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  1. #1

    Default new to the forums; a little overwhelmed!

    first off, i just wanted to begin by saying thankyou to all the immense contributors in this community, as i'm just blown away by how many mods/tips/resources are available for the game.

    I apologise if this sort of thread isn't appropriate but i've gotta say that i'm more than a little confused by all the mods and info available on what i thought was a game i had pretty well down pat, and so i wanted to use this thread to help get answer to some questions which i couldn't solve on my own, or at least so people could direct me in the right way.

    Well i've been playing the total war games since MTW, and while i was a bit young to appreciate the intricacies of the game then, RTW was a game i absolutely loved to death and spent many, many hours on. Up until now, the total war games (which is the only game i really play) have come at the end of my computer's life-cycle and so they've been a bit of a struggle to play. While i'm a little late to the party, having got MTW2 just a couple of days ago, i have a computer which can finally handle it with ease.

    Anyway, to get to the point, i'm fairly confident in my abilities with the standard game, i've started a long campaign with england to get my feet wet (on normal difficulty) and am fairly close to conquering all of europe up to modern russia. in RTW i basically played the 'vanilla' game and it's two expansions exclusively, until mtw2 came out (which i couldn't play on my system) at which point i first discovered the modding community through the extended greek factions mod and RTR, both of which i enjoyed but i also felt that there were some balance issues which the real games didn't have.

    But now with MTW2, i find that i'm at see with what's been happening and how i can best enhance my experience. So i'm hoping some people can help get me up to speed:

    1. From some of the posts that i've read, it seems that more than a few people are disenchanted with MTW2/CA, however i can't seem to work out why? Is it the lack of big new features, the lack of realism, poor AI or what?

    2. Why oh why is the 1.2 patch and 1.3 patch each 650MB? Is the 1.00 game 'unplayable' in it's initial state? does the 1.2/1.3 patch fix the majority of these problems? do i need to start a new game to get all the benefits? is the 1.3 patch as important as 1.2, as it seemed to be directed at Kingdoms (which i don't own yet).

    3. Does the Kingdoms expansion provide any engine enhancements which aren't available in patches? (For instance, Barbarians added religion, night attacks and other stuff). If so, will those changes also apply to the original game (grand campaign) or will they only exist in the expansion campaigns (new world, britain etc.)?

    4. Does changing the campaign/battle map difficulty ONLY alter AI or does it just give the computer factions bonuses (eg. easier public order/more finances on campaign map and higher morale on the battle map)? I've seen conflicting views on this, but the manual seems to say that it's only AI improvements.

    5. Is there plans for an official second expansion for MTW2 or is it full steam ahead with empire:TW?

    With regards to mods:
    6. Do all mods run their own local copy or do they alter the core files (and thus change the way the normal campaign plays out), or should i just look out for them on a case by case basis?

    7. As with the above question, do mods that affect things like AI, unit textures and campaign balance run on their own independent copy or do they alter the core files, and if so, is there any way to uninstall them later without just doing a fresh install of MTW2?

    8. For mods that look to enhance the standard campaign as opposed to provide a totally new style of campaign, do they play well together? For instance, if i wanted to install a mod which reintroduced areas of recruitment and another which improved campaign AI, would that result in an 'unbalanced' game?

    9. is there any significant part of MTW2 that can be altered which was unalterable in RTW? Might sound like an odd questions as MTW2 seems to me to be almost entirely changeable but can things like the papacy also be toyed with?

    10. Similar to question 1, is there any part of the game which just simply HAS to be modded, or some mod which is essential for fixing bugs/glitches?

    11. Is there a mod which adds areas of recruitment to MTW2 in a fair (and not over-the-top way) so that if you take over a city like in Spain, you can also acquire spanish faction only guilds and those associated knights?

    12. Is there an expanded campaign map mod like the ones available in RTW which divided the world into more provinces and added places in africa and india? If there are, do these mods suffer from the same sorts of problems as in RTW where there was simply too much money around, resulting in obscenely large armies being churned out by a couple of super powers by the endgame?

    13. I've read of how to alter the vanilla campaign to increase the number of turns you get by reducing how many years pass each turn. Does this result in any odd behaviour (agents/generals dieing too young or too old). Do production times become longer or are they still the same? Does the AI still function properly over a campaign which may be 2 or 4 times as long and do the 'events' still happen at the right time?

    14. Is there any easy way to disable events such as the discovery of the new world, the invention of gunpowder or the mongol/timurid invasions? or would this screw up the game?

    15. Is there a specific mod which you see as the equivalent of RTR in terms of AoR, more factions, bigger map, longer campaign, more units for the small factions, more and altered building etc? (I'm not so concerned with higher realsim, just a broader variety of strategy to employ in a game).

    16. Are there any game overhauling mods (in the same vein as the LOTR:TW mods and RTR for R:TW) which you consider to be in a complete stage, that you'd highly recommend?

    Lots of questions, thankyou very much for your help and this immense community!

    Cheers,
    Prakimus

  2. #2
    Captain Blackadder's Avatar A bastion of sanity
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    Default Re: new to the forums; a little overwhelmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post

    1. From some of the posts that i've read, it seems that more than a few people are disenchanted with MTW2/CA, however i can't seem to work out why? Is it the lack of big new features, the lack of realism, poor AI or what?
    Mostly its the bad A.I also many people are upset by the features that are missing form the original medieval total war for instance titles. Others are angry about the treatment of certain factions like the muslims.

    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    2. Why oh why is the 1.2 patch and 1.3 patch each 650MB? Is the 1.00 game 'unplayable' in it's initial state? does the 1.2/1.3 patch fix the majority of these problems? do i need to start a new game to get all the benefits? is the 1.3 patch as important as 1.2, as it seemed to be directed at Kingdoms (which i don't own yet).
    1.3 is a multiplayer patch that I think allows kingdom players to play with originals. 1.00 is playable but I would highly recommend getting the patch as there are some major bugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    3. Does the Kingdoms expansion provide any engine enhancements which aren't available in patches? (For instance, Barbarians added religion, night attacks and other stuff). If so, will those changes also apply to the original game (grand campaign) or will they only exist in the expansion campaigns (new world, britain etc.)?
    Kingdoms adds nothing to the grand campign but there are mods that rectify this. The expansion mostly makes for a more focused affair with more historical events changing the way the game runs for instance in the englsih one you get heros turning up with troops.
    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    4. Does changing the campaign/battle map difficulty ONLY alter AI or does it just give the computer factions bonuses (eg. easier public order/more finances on campaign map and higher morale on the battle map)? I've seen conflicting views on this, but the manual seems to say that it's only AI improvements.
    It changes the A.I there are no bonuses given.
    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    5. Is there plans for an official second expansion for MTW2 or is it full steam ahead with empire:TW?
    There is no current plans but that could change.
    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    6. Do all mods run their own local copy or do they alter the core files (and thus change the way the normal campaign plays out), or should i just look out for them on a case by case basis?
    Most do not effect the ways the original game runs you can still play vanillia
    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    7. As with the above question, do mods that affect things like AI, unit textures and campaign balance run on their own independent copy or do they alter the core files, and if so, is there any way to uninstall them later without just doing a fresh install of MTW2?
    You can uninstall them without a freash reinstall at least that is the way it was with the mods I have played.
    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    8. For mods that look to enhance the standard campaign as opposed to provide a totally new style of campaign, do they play well together? For instance, if i wanted to install a mod which reintroduced areas of recruitment and another which improved campaign AI, would that result in an 'unbalanced' game?
    I don't know I don't think you can meld them like that it is just asking for trouble I would say download one of the bigger mods out there and they should have all the mini mods you would like.
    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    9. is there any significant part of MTW2 that can be altered which was unalterable in RTW? Might sound like an odd questions as MTW2 seems to me to be almost entirely changeable but can things like the papacy also be toyed with?
    I am not a modder so I don't know
    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    10. Similar to question 1, is there any part of the game which just simply HAS to be modded, or some mod which is essential for fixing bugs/glitches?
    There is none the original is perfectly fine under 1.3
    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    11. Is there a mod which adds areas of recruitment to MTW2 in a fair (and not over-the-top way) so that if you take over a city like in Spain, you can also acquire spanish faction only guilds and those associated knights?
    I don't think so however that is a feature in kingdoms with the english campign.
    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    12. Is there an expanded campaign map mod like the ones available in RTW which divided the world into more provinces and added places in africa and india? If there are, do these mods suffer from the same sorts of problems as in RTW where there was simply too much money around, resulting in obscenely large armies being churned out by a couple of super powers by the endgame?
    I have not played those mods but I beleive they are out there so I can't comment on the problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    13. I've read of how to alter the vanilla campaign to increase the number of turns you get by reducing how many years pass each turn. Does this result in any odd behaviour (agents/generals dieing too young or too old). Do production times become longer or are they still the same? Does the AI still function properly over a campaign which may be 2 or 4 times as long and do the 'events' still happen at the right time?
    It makes them die correctly but it causes problems with the family tree since it was designed for 7 generations and it gets confused after that.
    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    14. Is there any easy way to disable events such as the discovery of the new world, the invention of gunpowder or the mongol/timurid invasions? or would this screw up the game?
    I assume it is easy and I wouldent screw up the game but I can't understand why you would want to get rid of them since they are entertaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    15. Is there a specific mod which you see as the equivalent of RTR in terms of AoR, more factions, bigger map, longer campaign, more units for the small factions, more and altered building etc? (I'm not so concerned with higher realsim, just a broader variety of strategy to employ in a game).
    I am not sure
    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    16. Are there any game overhauling mods (in the same vein as the LOTR:TW mods and RTR for R:TW) which you consider to be in a complete stage, that you'd highly recommend?
    There are any really Broekn Crescent is coming soon and that looks fantastic but most of the mods are not and LOTR stage just yet.

    Lots of questions, thankyou very much for your help and this immense community!

    Cheers,
    Prakimus[/quote]
    Patronised by happyho
    Patron of Thoragoros, Chilon
    Member of the Legion of Rahl


  3. #3

    Default Re: new to the forums; a little overwhelmed!

    1. its more to do with poor ai and pathfinding, CA Bashers tend to focus on these.
    there are certainly a few problems that sega/ca could have done properly (like the forts issue in Kingdoms) but all things considered they've produced an excellent individual product IMO.

    2 & 3. buy kingdoms, its worth it! otherwise the 1.3 patch will bring your engine up to the kingdoms level where AI is considered.

    4. stick to the manual or you will get confused or get more question as answers.

    5. sega/ca have official announced there will be one FINAL patch for the m2tw series and no expansions, full steam ahead on etw. see this thread

    6, 7 & 8. look at each mods readme or info thread, most (all to my knowledge) m2tw mods use their own altered files separated from the main game and the mod runs from it own shortcut, to play the original game you just run the original shortcut.

    9. this answer could be a very long one. basically yes, m2tw is very moddable, check out the twcwiki for more info on modding.

    10. not particularly, but i do think a formations mod such as Darth's formations is essential.

    11. there are a few that use a similar concept, check out PDER or DLV for this feature.

    12. Lands to conquer mod has this

    13. events are altered but can be fixed to occur if you change the turn number to the correct ratio, eg, double the turns then double the events turn number.

    14. its all in the campaign script, delete that and you delete the events (and many other features).

    15. DotS when its released! nah no real RTR equivilant right now but PDER is quite good try that mod, for a more of a gameplay focused mod try DLV and for a mod that gives you more maps to play and better ai try Lands to conquer.

    16. not yet, sorry

    hope this helped you

  4. #4

    Default Re: new to the forums; a little overwhelmed!

    thankyou very much for the replies Captain BlackAdder and Sounds Like Killing. Answered all my questions!

    After spending some more time reading over the different forums, i can see that there are some pretty exciting mods available for MTW2, although it looks like i may need to get kingdoms to get the most out of them (something i wasn't going to get anyway when i get bored with MTW2 vanilla).

    Already played through once quickly (ie. very few actual battles) with the english and once with the spanish. Spanish seemed more frustrating as they had huge holes in their early unit variety.

    Have now started what i like to think of as my first 'full' game in MTW2, (going through most of the battles in control) and have started with the turks, who had the same problem in the early game of no good infantry and far too many horse archers, but now i've got Siphalai, Saracen, Halbred and Heavy Janissary infantry to give more than enough variety.

    One somewhat annoying thing i've experienced though is that none of my turkish generals give speeches in battles? I loved hearing those hillarious speeches from my mentally unstable generals from spain and england, is there any reason why the turks don't give speeches - they just cheer pre-battle.

  5. #5
    Dunecat's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: new to the forums; a little overwhelmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    Spanish seemed more frustrating as they had huge holes in their early unit variety.
    BLASPHEMY! All-Jinette armies are the One True Army Build...

    Might I recommend the English or Milanese? Easy, straight-forward composition and expansion, with room for variety and new experiences.



    I would stay away from non-catholic, non starting factions for the most part when feeling the game out, as they tend to have more limited lists and more challenging difficulties.

    Good luck...

  6. #6
    Pyrebound's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: new to the forums; a little overwhelmed!

    As all the questions have been answered, i shall just point out that there is already a stickied thread for questions

    And myself i dont like english, but (surprise surprise) Milan is one of my favourites. Pretty good roster, containing good money-saver militias, decent knights and famiglia ducales <3. The starting position is decent, as your going to get rich italian cities, but also there are enemies in every direction, all wanting your lands

    And as you said, turks have quite poor early unit roster, but their lategame (Janissaries) just simply pwn. I do not play islamic factions too much though because i am terrible commander -> i cower at the sight of mongols and timurids. Ill just stick with factions.. that are as far as possible from the middle-east

    Aaand more edit.. I think the missing speech could be because of the islamic faction. Ive heard that they have quite short speeches. Though, it just could be that your generals lack traits such as 'can tell a tale' etc
    Last edited by Pyrebound; December 26, 2007 at 11:53 AM. Reason: Moar text

  7. #7

    Default Re: new to the forums; a little overwhelmed!

    hey guys, thanks for all the help but i have a few more general questions...

    i'm a little perplexed by comparing units and why certain ones are worthwhile,

    for instance why is a gendarm any better than a feudal knight? it has a better charge but less defence and a higher upkeep.

    why are jinetes so good?

    why would venice (or any italian faction) build sergeant spearmen over the italian spear millitia?

    and most perplexing for me, why would venice ever build men at arms/broken lances (or their dismounted forms) over feudal knights, which seem to be much better, with no higher upkeep and only slightly more initial cost. i got feudal knights well before i got either of the other two and it struck me as truly bizarre why i'd want either of them.

    all the questions are in the same vein, i've been searching for a good link on units and specific unit tactics (i generally know my way around a battle field_ but i haven't anything particularly useful yet. any links would be much appreciated.

    thanks.

  8. #8

    Default Re: new to the forums; a little overwhelmed!

    These different units have different Moral and some will route easier then others, also it is about variaty i would not want to play with the same units the whole game.

  9. #9
    Rodrico Stak's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: new to the forums; a little overwhelmed!

    The Turkish Speeches bug has nothing to do with the general's traits - its just a bug, and I wish I knew how to fix it, but for now I think the only solution is to live with it.

  10. #10
    Daneboy's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: new to the forums; a little overwhelmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post

    and most perplexing for me, why would venice ever build men at arms/broken lances (or their dismounted forms) over feudal knights, which seem to be much better, with no higher upkeep and only slightly more initial cost. i got feudal knights well before i got either of the other two and it struck me as truly bizarre why i'd want either of them.
    Well, I love the broken lances unit. Itīs a militia unit, if kept in a city, itīs free upkeep. Plus, itīs not that bad in battle. It can more than hold it own until I bring the hammer down on its opponents.

  11. #11
    Skyline Pete's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: new to the forums; a little overwhelmed!

    Tigran summed it up it up. Variety.

    It'd be soughta lame if there was just

    A: sword guy
    B: spear guy
    C: bow guy
    D: horse guy

    Another good way to describe the game is like an RPG. You can power game through it quickly and just beat it with the best units available. Or you could 'roleplay' your empire and go through slowly and steady, would no doubt take longer but you'd probably see better AI behaviour in the long run.

  12. #12

    Default Re: new to the forums; a little overwhelmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    15. Is there a specific mod which you see as the equivalent of RTR in terms of AoR, more factions, bigger map, longer campaign, more units for the small factions, more and altered building etc? (I'm not so concerned with higher realsim, just a broader variety of strategy to employ in a game).

    16. Are there any game overhauling mods (in the same vein as the LOTR:TW mods and RTR for R:TW) which you consider to be in a complete stage, that you'd highly recommend?
    For 15 and 16, I would definately recommend Stainless Steel 5.1 if you have kingdoms, or 4.1 if you do not. This mod adds numerous gameplay changes and fixes, balances the game out, and greatly improves the AI, along with the addition of numerous new factions and units.


    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    for instance why is a gendarm any better than a feudal knight? it has a better charge but less defence and a higher upkeep.
    Well, you have to consider that gendarms are built from cities, and as france (well me at least), I rarely keep that many citadels around to build lancers (playing stainless steel, so gendarms are more powerful compared to feudal knights), so my huge cities often provide some of my fighting force. Also, i think they have a higher defense "skill" rather than "shield". This makes them more resistant to arrow fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    why are jinetes so good?
    Cheap, effective, and adequate at melee, and insane at hit and run attacks (i have only played them in custom mode, so someone more qualified could probably do better than me at describing their effectiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    why would venice (or any italian faction) build sergeant spearmen over the italian spear millitia?
    Well, again location...you can't always have cities everywhere. In case of urgent reinforcements, sergeant spearmen tends to do better. If you're playing on a mod that differentiates between milita units and regular units, the regular spearmen will have better morale/stats/stamina ect.

    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    and most perplexing for me, why would venice ever build men at arms/broken lances (or their dismounted forms) over feudal knights, which seem to be much better, with no higher upkeep and only slightly more initial cost. i got feudal knights well before i got either of the other two and it struck me as truly bizarre why i'd want either of them.
    Dunno, haven't played as Venice yet, then again, you might wanna spice up your army with different units, since you'll probably get tired of looking at the same textures over and over again


    Quote Originally Posted by prakimus88 View Post
    all the questions are in the same vein, i've been searching for a good link on units and specific unit tactics (i generally know my way around a battle field_ but i haven't anything particularly useful yet. any links would be much appreciated.
    Most of the tips/strategy threads are spread throughout the forums, but look to the battle planning sub-forum for detailed suggestions ect.
    But basically:
    Don't charge your cavalry into spearmen - ever(unless it's a flanking attack)
    Make sure your crossbowmen have a direct line to the enemy (i.e can shoot them w/o any units standing in the way), or their combat effectiveness is greatly decreased

    Download Stainless Steel 5.1, it seems like the mod for you

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