Medieval: Middle East

[AlphaDelta]

Because of the huge delays in BC caused by never ending issues with a CTD, I've decided to move all of my work over to a new map. The factions will be the same as BC had, except there will be no Byzantine, because the units made for them aren't mine.

Medieval: Middle East will have sole access to my work and the map is already in progress. I hope to have a release ready by the end of January.

Screenshots coming soon.

[Miraj]

Dave, we already solved the CTD issue. This is not really necessary.

Are you okay?

[Ahiga]

A lot of the units came from my research and my work in planning it. So, I am not really understanding why you're going to take all of that work as your own entirely. Had I known you'd just rob my hard work and take it as your own, I'd never have tried to help you in the first place. Apparently the hours spent producing concepts and ideas have amounted to nothing? That I am supposed to accept all of that work going out the window, with my hard work and effort being your profit and your profit only? No, I'm not going to accept that. I wasn't offended until now.

I'd really like to see what units are yours and yours only. Last I recalled pretty much every single faction had you turning to me for help. Not to mention the overwhelming majority of the units came from my research. Do you honestly think that even half of your units would exist as they do today if not for my help? Really, you got mad when another mod used my research and your models as a basis for their units, and you are now doing the exact same to my research. And you expect me to just wave bon voyage and let you reap all the credit?

Maybe you forget this work of mine on 'your' units:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4...tarmoracw7.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3...tarmorbtz2.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/7...ntsbodyhr7.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5...optionark3.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9...ntsbodyzo5.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1...edshirtnv9.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5...uishpuryy1.jpg
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5...nobles4zt9.jpg
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...8&postcount=23
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...3&postcount=27

And it goes on and on, for a majority of the units. You think it was just throwing images at you? I spent as much time as you did on the units, finding images and artwork, giving you ideas and producing writeups for meshes. You wouldn't have found at least half of the artwork you used if it wasn't for me.

You want units you have an exclusive right to? Select the ones I had no hand in helping you on, or researching. Don't dare to claim privilege on units which wouldn't exist if you didn't have me helping you. Unless you're the one which researched the factions, found out about ones nobody else knew existed (Like Makuria, Oman, Sindh), and spent the time to find the images and produce them in a way to help you with your modeling and skinning.

You want to use my research and my hard work, and you expect we don't have the right to use the units you made from that research and hard work? You want to make your own mod with your own work, I'm not going to stop you. And you're not going to stop us from using the units which my research is responsible for. Your units wouldn't exist if you hadn't made them, and they wouldn't exist as they do if I hadn't helped you and researched them for you, so we both have the same stock in them.

They aren't exclusive to you or to me, and you are not going to rob my work I did for BC and take it as your own.

[AlphaDelta]

I own the copyright to all my mesh and texture files. The original source files are all time-stamped and dated. I can provide MD5's for all source files to prove authenticity. My models and textures will be used exclusively in Medieval: Middle east. Your research material is your own and I make no claim to it. Do not attempt to make claim to my material.

Thank you.

[Ahiga]

I own the copyright to all my mesh and texture files. The original source files are all time-stamped and dated. They will be used exclusively in Medieval: Middle east. Your research material is your own and I make no claim to it. Do not attempt to make claim to my material.

Thank you.

Many of your units are only possible as a result of my research. Unless you believe that you'd have created the Omani, Sindhi, Makurians, or countless other units from other factions without having had me produce the research for you for the mod. You are making claim of textures and models which were only possible because of me. If you did not have my help, they would have turned out differently.

You are robbing me of the hours I spent helping you, and I haven't the slightest clue why you've chosen to. And I think everyone deserves to know that while you spent the time to create the model and texture, I spent the time to do the research, come up with the ideas, and write them up for you out of the generosity of team spirit, something you know little of. You want something you can claim as entirely your own.

You can't even do that. This mod's setting and scope was Mirage's idea. The research in the faction's was mine. You are robbing those as you threaten copyright at us as though we are the thieves. Why don't you work on that English Civil war thing? That would be entirely your own.

I've said my piece, and there is no convincing someone who values his own glory over participation on a team.

[Miraj]

AD, why exactly are you doing this?

Remember that BC owns all of those units. As you yourself once said.

Anyways, its very sad to see you sink your own work over such trivial issues. Especially considering it took me 1 day to figure out the CTD.

[AlphaDelta]

Remember that BC owns all of those units. As you yourself once said.

Considering atleast 51% of the work on BC is mine, I don't see how anyone has any greater claim to BC than I. Anyway, it's inconsequential as the unit files are my property.

Anyways, its very sad to see you sink your own work over such trivial issues

I didn't want to get personal, but to be honest, half the reason I've decided to go my own way is the constant nagging. Over the last few weeks I've had nothing but "Can you send an update?", "Umm what are you doing?", "Why is it taking so long?", "Can you upload the latest files this weekend.". Over the last week or so I've had atleast 4 emails, 5 or 6 pm's, half a dozen forum posts, and many MSN messages, all bugging me that I need to get a move on and send an update. I already have a couple of real life bosses, I don't need an online team to dictate what I do with my free time.

Working on BC was fun for a long time, but once it became just another job with just another boss it quickly became tedious and unrewarding.

Good luck in the future.

Cheers

[Miraj]

I didn't want to get personal, but to be honest, half the reason I've decided to go my own way is the constant nagging. Over the last few weeks I've had nothing but "Can you send an update?", "Umm what are you doing?", "Why is it taking so long?", "Can you send the latest files". Over the last week or so I've had atleast 4 emails, 4 or 5 pm's, half a dozen forum posts, and many MSN messages, bugging me that I need to get a move on and send an update. I already have one boss, I don't need another.

Working on BC was fun for a long time, but once it became just another job with just another boss it quickly became tedious and unrewarding.

Good luck in the future.

Cheers

I'm sorry Dave, but as far as I'm concerned I've sent you 1 PM, and left 1 msn message to you. Thats not exactly nagging. We have been very open, cooperative and understanding team. We only asked for the ERE units, which involved packing and uploading. Thats not a job, just a team request.

And we still want to see you back in the mod, since - lets face it - this will go nowhere good. The units will be in Broken Crescent, whether it will be on TWC or not. So please, understand that you can't do everything on your own.

The CTD issue has been solved too, so I fail to understand why you've decided to attack the mod and the team and the fans in such a manner. This is wholly innappropriate, if you had problems with us asking you could just tell us and we'd understand - as we have before.

So please, lets talk this out.

[Ahiga]

If you're willing to come online and talk to us about it, then I would be happy to try and be more accommodating and less overbearing. After I was too bothersome when you worked on Georgia I tried to back off to give you more space and make it more enjoyable for you. I'd be happy to do so again if you are willing to talk to us about it. I do not like to be bothersome to you nor to be an oppressive boss, but what happens next is up to you.

[AlphaDelta]

Well I tried to discuss it with Mirage on MSN. We made some progress but his final comments were too much for me.

*Cut*

Mirage banned me after he sent me this abusive message.

All this because I claim ownership of my work and wish to do with it what I please.

Mirage claimed to of enjoyed working along side me, but now slanders me on the very forum I helped to draw people into. I also appear to be banned from the BC forum.

Cheers

[Miraj]

Hmm, care to post the rest of the MSN convo? Yes I understand context won't help your case.

[AlphaDelta]

-NO CHATLOGS-

[Miraj]

David care to explain to us how you intend to copyright CA's material? Also I recall you borrowing lots of Strelac's items and models.

[AlphaDelta]

In agreeance with the moderators orders I will no longer post about this issue on TWcenter, until of course it is decided discussions are needed.

I only hope Mirage's actions are now known to the community.

Thank you for your support.

[Miraj]

I only hope Mirage's actions are now known to the community.

Yes I hope so too. I have not backstabbed an entire team and project at its most critical moment and regularly squandered the good will of people. I have nothing to hide.

The units and all material made for BC belongs to BC. Be clear Dave. And I will thoroughly pursue anyone who uses these units outside the BC modification.

You have left the team and have no say as to what happens to the material made for this mod. So please, drop the nonsense.

Also the units were made with Ahiga's regular and indepth help. His research work went into nearly every eastern unit we have. So please ask him for permission too.

[Son of Mao]

why is there a need to have two middle east mods with the same time period?

[Beauchamp]

As an "outsider", I just want to see the mod made, I do not want to see all of our hard work put to waste. This is an issue between the three of you, granted, but it sounds like there was a lot of stressful situations and alot of time put into the work. I can confidentily say that we have all put in alot of time to help this mod, some way more than others, and that I have always felt was understood.

[Elric von Rabenfels]

I say it again. Stop posting chatlogs.

-Closed-

[AlphaDelta]

Can a moderator close this thread, Mirage continues to defy the orders of a moderator and by abiding to the order I can not comment as I would like.

If anyone has a question they may send me a private message.

Thank you for your support.