Artillery - Ideas for Best Practices?

[trench]

Posted in battle planning in Kingdoms a week ago, but no ideas forthcoming This forum may have more traffic.

How do you guys us these catapults or canons most effectively in flat open field battles?

Either the AI rushes them or engages my troops and I am forced to possibly hit my own troops when using arty.

Any suggestions on the best way to deploy these assets?
Thanks Much.

[snuggans]

in your infantry line, create very small gaps wide enough to fit the artillery. but never put two next to each other as that creates more space that your own forces have to cover to engage incoming enemy forces. use your better judgement to decide when it is the best time to tell your artillery to cease all fire and let your infantry move up. you could also try to put them on the sides, but you'll probably need cavalry to protect them.

if youre lucky enough to be able to deploy near a slope or hill, you can place your artillery fairly close behind your troops if you deploy on a descending slope; your artillery will be higher and wont cause friendly casualties.

[billerator]

The above is a good one if you have an enemy making a frontal attack. If you face a player who is slow to attack or has lots of missile/artillery units then move you artillery forward of your line so you can hit the enemy without their artillery being able to return fire on your units. If the enemy player sends forward cavalry, double click your artillery to close quarters attack and then immediately run them behind your own lines. You can send them back to their pieces once you've cleared the surrounding area.

If the enemy player is fielding an equal or greater number of cannon you can use this tactic to engage their cannon without putting your own line in direct range of their fire.

[snuggans]

If the enemy player is fielding an equal or greater number of cannon you can use this tactic to engage their cannon without putting your own line in direct range of their fire.

well, direct range.. true

but unlike RTW's pinpoint accurate artillery, M2TW's artillery actually miss by overshooting many times.. and this will sometimes hit your line even if your cannons are closer to the enemy.

i totally forgot that telling the artillery crew to leave their artillery was such an awesome idea. i never liked the idea of sending the artillery out front because they were so slothful in running back; this really solves that. good idea..

[Harald Hardrade]

I've found it best to only use artillery when i greatly out number an opponent. This usualy deters him from engaging but that might just be a bug in the AI.

[Kahn]

Only use artillery... when outnumbered.

I don't get it.

[pwijnands]

I only use it in sieges and especially when assaulting forts. Forts are a death trap for the enemy, especially if they decide to clump everything in the "town" square.

[homefry]

As mentioned before, you could order them to run for cover.

I position the artillary right in the think of my battle line. In other words, position the battle line however you want and then postion the artillary in the thick of it in a position where only the cannons are in front and have a clear shot.

[Samir]

or you use them as a bait.

sure the risk is great, but sometimes it works fine.

Cavalry and artillery seperatly (preferable a little hill with the Arty in front and a line of sight to the main battle field, with at least 2 cavs behind them (to counter a cav charge or infantry assault) while your main army is seperatly waiting for the enemy.

if you keep the arty in range of the enemies approach to your main army, as well as the main army in range of the enemies approach on the arties possition you cover yourself double.

if the enemy attacks the main army, he has to go through the field of fire of arty and archers making him vulnerable to cav charges into his flank from the cav at the arty

if the enemy attacks the arty, he crosses a field of fire from arty and main army archers, gets assaulted in his flanks by your main army and hit from the front by cav protecting the arty.

just keep at least 2 cavs at the arty, then you can counter any cavalry that attacks your artillery position independently.

the thing is that this works only when the terrain is right as you have to make use of good fields of fire, postioning and the enemy has to attack you (so you have to have smaller numbers then he has)

[Valette]

I don't starting using artillery in the field until I have cannons. And then I normally place them in the centre of my line, mow down as much of the enemy as I can (I play Venice alot so I use Ribaults) and then order them to leave the pieces and pull back to safety. When the enemy is retreating I order them back and rain fire down upon them. At this point I do not care if it hits my own men as I keep a couple of units of light cavalry for just capturing the retreating men.

[TWManiac]

Once Gunpowder becomes available, my whole campaign strategy changes. I finish whatever wars I'm involved in and begin to revamp my entire military. I only use a handful of units: Arquebusiers, Pikemen, Culverins, Heavy Cavalry and the occasional dismounted heavy knight to take the walls .


As I said in my other post, Culverins, Basilisks, Cannons, whatever you can get your hands on, changes the way battles are fought.

Geography really has no play on the situation....
-If fighting on a plain, you can bombard them from long distances and make them come to you.
-If fighting uphill, they are cannon fodder because you can see all their forces
-If fighting downhill, you have leverage over them and they are pretty much forced to engage your pikemen in an uphill battle (which in case you haven't noticed from playing Rome:TW, are pretty much the best defensive units available)

Any which way, the following strategy pretty much works in any situation

(Line)-Pikemen {5}
R-Arquebusiers (Musketeers work too for those who play with Spain) {8}
H-Heavy Cavalry{2}
A-Artillery{4}
G-General{}

______________
H / R R R R \ H
R R R R
A A A A
G

Generally, your pikemen will devastate any enemy closing in, i.e., any that don't route after suffering heavy casualties from the riflemen & artillery. The Pikemen can be spread out to about three rows thin, don't forget, they have cavalry on the flanks and the enemy is scared **** of the riflemen.

[TWManiac]

Once Gunpowder becomes available, my whole campaign strategy changes. I finish whatever wars I'm involved in and begin to revamp my entire military. I only use a handful of units: Arquebusiers, Pikemen, Culverins, Heavy Cavalry and the occasional dismounted heavy knight to take the walls .


As I said in my other post, Culverins, Basilisks, Cannons, whatever you can get your hands on, changes the way battles are fought.

Geography really has no play on the situation....
-If fighting on a plain, you can bombard them from long distances and make them come to you.
-If fighting uphill, they are cannon fodder because you can see all their forces
-If fighting downhill, you have leverage over them and they are pretty much forced to engage your pikemen in an uphill battle (which in case you haven't noticed from playing Rome:TW, are pretty much the best defensive units available)

Any which way, the following strategy pretty much works in any situation

(Line)-Pikemen {5}
R-Arquebusiers (Musketeers work too for those who play with Spain) {8}
H-Heavy Cavalry{2}
A-Artillery{4}
G-General{}

_______
H / R R R R \ H
R R R R
A A A A
G

(Obviously not that tight together but you get the basic idea)


Generally, your pikemen will devastate any enemy closing in, i.e., any that don't route after suffering heavy casualties from the riflemen & artillery. The Pikemen can be spread out to about three rows thin, don't forget, they have cavalry on the flanks and the enemy is scared **** of the riflemen.

[Xix]

Is there a place where I can view the ranges and rates of fire for all of the diferent artillary units available (and all ranged units really)?

[Lord Gothmog]

Geography really has no play on the situation....
-If fighting on a plain, you can bombard them from long distances and make them come to you.
-If fighting uphill, they are cannon fodder because you can see all their forces
-If fighting downhill, you have leverage over them and they are pretty much forced to engage your pikemen in an uphill battle (which in case you haven't noticed from playing Rome:TW, are pretty much the best defensive units available)

You just proved that Geography has "play" in the situation. Geography is very important to wining battles, essential when playing online against real people.

Cannons can be used defensivly or aggressivly, both ways have different tactics.

When attacking move your cannons within range of the middle of their deployment and blast away. Keep a screening force of Calvary to cover them if attacked. Once almost out of ammo, attack with your troops and mop up.

If the enemy counter attacks with their entire army, move your army up to the cannon's position or preferably right in front of them. Move the cannons back and to the flank to attack targets of opportunity.

When defending I normally place cannons behind my lines or on my far right, up a hill if available. I leave one troop of Spearment or Pikemen to defend them. The cannons should be placed so that they shoot parallel to your front lines, but far enough away that the enemy will have a difficult time getting to them quickly. One unit of Calvary can protect both the cannons and the flank.

Example:

---------------------------------------------------------------------CC
---------------------------------------------------------------------PPPP
------------------------------------------------
-----------AAAARRAAAARRAAAA---------------
----------PPPP-PPPP-PPPP-PPPP---------
----HC----HI---------G------HI----HC

AA - Shooters
RR - Ribolt
PP - Pike or Spear
HI - Heavy Infantry
HC - Heavy Calvary
G - General
CC - Cannons

With the ability to fire along your front line you can keep fire on the enemy throughout the battle. If severely outnumbered or if the enemy has a large amount of Calvary, this is not a good idea and you should bring them in close behind your lines.

Some online players will risk alot to kill your cannons, watch for this and when they attack the pikemen guards hit them in the rear with your flank Calvary. If they ignore the cannons then fire along your battle lines and destroy the enemy.

Historical note: When in the gunpowder age you can station your men behind a hill and be protected from gunfire and cannon fire. Once the enemy has advanced, quickly crest the hill (before they get there) and charge into the enemy. This was used by both Wellington and Napoleon. I said "Protected", not invulnerable.

I used this the other week when the other player had too many cannons for me to outshoot, he lost in the end when he ran out of ammo.

Lord Gothmog

[Razbojnik]

I put the arty behind my lines,and try to kill their general before they reach my army,and very often they dont advance on me at all,i rout them all with archers and arty.

[TWoxy]

Unless you have serpentines or need to attack cities, artillery usually isn't worth the slot in your army. You might get lucky of course and hit a couple of times, but I would say that, on average, you'll miss a lot more than you will hit.

[Town Watch]

I found out a somewhat nice tactic with venice: I put my units into squares in the classic manipular formation of the romans, then I put my monster ribaults in near the front line, a bit more back, but so that I would still get a clear shot right to the front.
Coz monster ribaults can be emptied in short go with the volley fire, the enemy usually doesn't advance fast enough to avooid a devastating volley.