Anglo-Saxons

**HIC SVNT LEONES** · December 18, 2007, 11:42 PM

I've noticed there are English Huscarls in the game as mercenaries, but was it ever thought to have started the mod a bit earlier and actually include the Anglo-Saxons, perhaps alongside the Duchy of Normandy?

If it were a faction, would the Anglo-Saxon Kings under wessex be a sort of Pseudo-Viking/Infantry based faction?

**Kyias** · December 18, 2007, 11:51 PM

When the Normans took England under William the Anglo-saxon nobility and the Huscarls were displaced and hired under local barons. The fact they are mercs is rather accurate during that period.

**Hereward** · December 19, 2007, 12:40 AM

I read somewhere that following the conquest many anglo-saxon warriors and huscarls actually went to Constantinople to fight as mercenaries for the Byzantine emperor alongside the varangian guard.

This is why I think English huscarl mercenaries should be available for hire around Constantinople.

And about the Saxons being more infantry based, well yes you could say that. The Anglo-Saxon military tradition was for armies to travel on horseback, but fight on foot. So in a mod with a Saxon faction, they should be very infantry heavy, but it would be great if somehow their armies were given extra movement points on the campaign map to represent traveling on horseback.

edit: just checked my book, and apparently much of the displaced anglo-saxon thegnhood not only sought service in Byzantium, but also in Denmark and Scotland. So maybe english huscarl mercs should be available in these areas as well.

**~~Echad~~** · December 19, 2007, 10:48 AM

It's a shame we cannot dismount units during the battle!

**Kyias** · December 19, 2007, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Echad

It's a shame we cannot dismount units during the battle!

"Sir their entire Army is made of Pikes and Spears!"

"I'm not giving you the Glue Remover to get out of your saddle! Shut up and Charge!"

**~~Echad~~** · December 19, 2007, 11:06 AM

This is the answer:

**republic_bohemia** · December 19, 2007, 10:17 PM

Lol nice I like it.

**~~Echad~~** · December 19, 2007, 10:46 PM

I just don't like having a centaur army in M2TW... =\ And nothing can be done about it - hope CA will introduce dismounting in the next game.

**Hereward** · December 20, 2007, 12:29 AM

Echad, talk about something to mount!

(sorry, I couldn't resist)

Seriously though, I couldn't agree more about dismounting. And why aren't there horses running wild everywhere when their riders are killed? Or conversely, when the horses run into pikes or spikes, why can't some of the riders survive and continue fighting on foot?

**Oberhut** · December 20, 2007, 01:51 AM

Yes to the above ( prefere two legs though ). But dismountable cavalry would just be the trick

**~~Echad~~** · December 20, 2007, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by Hereward

Echad, talk about something to mount!

(sorry, I couldn't resist)

Seriously though, I couldn't agree more about dismounting. And why aren't there horses running wild everywhere when their riders are killed? Or conversely, when the horses run into pikes or spikes, why can't some of the riders survive and continue fighting on foot?

About something to mount... Sagittarius!

Anyone spotted that most of them got a bow?

Let's cut the posting bare boobs pics.
/Atterdag

**Ahiga** · December 20, 2007, 01:59 AM

Personally I think that'd really be an awesome idea. I am not sure when the Early campaign begins, and while setting it to around or prior to 1066 means changes elsewhere.

**HIC SVNT LEONES** · December 20, 2007, 06:50 PM

Um. How did uh, this all get turned into centaurs and zodiac schtuff? lol.

I mean, like, the Anglo-Saxons, and their Kingdoms and whatnot. What do you think all the deely would be with them? What would their military be set up like? Were the Saxons very influenced by the continent before the Invasion? Would it be possible to make a mod, with a reflection of Europe at the time, as a sort of "Wee Bit Earlier" Campaign, with a chance of What-Ifing, should the people fight of a younger, douchier William?

**~~Echad~~** · December 20, 2007, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by CyborgHamsterMan

Um. How did uh, this all get turned into centaurs and zodiac schtuff? lol.

It is a joke... And making fun of CA's idea of making all cavalry units Centaurs. =P

P.S. Don't see the trouble with bare boobs, they feed the children! Got milk?

**Jihada** · December 20, 2007, 09:54 PM

I don t know where you get the idea that the 1066 English rode horses to battle. In fact only the nobles had horses.
The march from the south of England to York (battle of Stamford Bridge) took only 4-5 days. Harold defeated the Norwegians then marched back to the south of England to fight William (at Hastings) in only 5 days. This is considered the fastest series of forced marches in history. The English were exausted by the march so hardly surprising they lost at Hastings.
The French Old Guard in the 1814 campaign did some amazing forced marches though.Jackson 's foot cavalry were pretty fast too.
I must admit this site does say some of the local landowners,thegns, did ride ponies so a proportion were mounted.
http://www.angelfire.com/mb2/battle_hastings_1066

**Hereward** · December 23, 2007, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Jihada

I don t know where you get the idea that the 1066 English rode horses to battle. In fact only the nobles had horses.
The march from the south of England to York (battle of Stamford Bridge) took only 4-5 days. Harold defeated the Norwegians then marched back to the south of England to fight William (at Hastings) in only 5 days. This is considered the fastest series of forced marches in history. The English were exausted by the march so hardly surprising they lost at Hastings.
The French Old Guard in the 1814 campaign did some amazing forced marches though.Jackson 's foot cavalry were pretty fast too.
I must admit this site does say some of the local landowners,thegns, did ride ponies so a proportion were mounted.
http://www.angelfire.com/mb2/battle_hastings_1066

From the book In Search of the Dark Ages by Michael Wood:

About Stamford Bridge on page 218:

On Monday morning he launched a lightning advance through York and on to Stamford bridge, a total of sixteen miles. The plan was classic Anglo-Saxon strategy, the long-range advance by a mounted army to a prearranged rendezvous within striking distance of the enemy, and then the final advance at dawn followed by a massive assault by the heavily armed picked troops.

About the march down to Hastings on page 221:

The speed of this march could again suggest that he came with an ellite force, the housecarls and other mercenaries with their spare mounts. In other words the royal fyrd which supported him in the northern campaign was discharged, and a fresh army summoned to London.........At any rate the myth of Harold having taken the same army up from the south coast to Yorkshire and then back down to Hastings cannot be sustained. One northern chronicler says Harold had five days in London to gather fresh forces....

And on the same page he captions a painting thus:

The Anglo-Saxon military tradition: armies moved on horseback and fought on foot.

**merlinuscdxx** · December 28, 2007, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Jihada

I don t know where you get the idea that the 1066 English rode horses to battle. In fact only the nobles had horses.
The march from the south of England to York (battle of Stamford Bridge) took only 4-5 days. Harold defeated the Norwegians then marched back to the south of England to fight William (at Hastings) in only 5 days. This is considered the fastest series of forced marches in history. The English were exausted by the march so hardly surprising they lost at Hastings.
The French Old Guard in the 1814 campaign did some amazing forced marches though.Jackson 's foot cavalry were pretty fast too.
I must admit this site does say some of the local landowners,thegns, did ride ponies so a proportion were mounted.
http://www.angelfire.com/mb2/battle_hastings_1066

ummm....Huscarls were Nobles

**Ahiga** · December 21, 2007, 04:44 AM

The Anglo-Saxons, I would say, drew much more from Scandanavia and Denmark than from the Continent, which is what the Norman-English did.

I think if SS were to do the Anglo-Saxons than many meshes or even units could be shared between them and Early Denmark (To the benefit of both), while later Anglo-Saxon units would be shared with the Later Normans (Whose earlier units could be shared with France, or Sicily).

Perhaps a bit of creativity could be undertaken, and reflect a slightly different England 100-200 years down the line (1200s or 1300s) if the Saxons retain England, or if the Normans take it from them.

http://www.regia.org/warfare/fyrd2.htm - Features information on the Fyrd's closer to the 1066, which I think was the army.
http://www.regia.org/warfare/huscarl.htm