catapults - artillery useage question

[trench]

How do you guys us these effectively in flat open field battles?

Either the AI rushes them or engagesmy troops and I am forced to possibly hit my own troops.

Suggestions?
Thanks.

[Mr Harold]

Hello, trench

Well with artillery you have to ask yourself: what is this peice of artillery good at? For example the mortars have exellent precsision and so should be used on dangerous units such as enemy artillery and generals etc.

Generally speaking though, you should use your artillery early in the battle during the skirmish phase and when the enemy is approaching. Once the enemy line comes within a short distance from your own troops, stop firing or you could hit your own. Theyre also usefull for picking off fleeing enemies.

XKillerX

[pwijnands]

You can always go for the enemy reserves (including archers/general/artillery) once the main battle line is engaged.

[Garnier]

Artillery is for sieges mostly, at least thats how I use it. Later when I have good cannons I may have then on the battlefield, but mainly they are for knocking down walls.

[Baron Thunder-ten-tronckh]

I love the eye-candy of having 6 catapults fire in the middle of marching enemy soldiers in a snow-covered field battle.

[Mythlacar]

As Killer mentioned it depends on the artillery.

Trebuchets can be used to fire over your melee lines at any enemy missle troops or artillery that stays back. Also good for the skirmish phase. If you have trebuchets, deploy as far back in your deployment zone as you can (assuming you were attacked) as the enemy marches forward you should get a good few hits. Deploy these bad boys behind your troops for best effect. Good on walls.

Catapults are mostly for siege or hitting the enemy as they march forward. I would not try to fire over your own troops to hit the enemy. Deploy these in front, but once the enemy is getting close, drop the siege equipment and run the crew behind the real fighting force. Great on walls as well.

Balistas are also just for the skirmish phase, once the battle is in full melee, they become useless. Assuming your not okay with firing bolts into your peasant horde fighting those highly armoured knights. In which case the friendly casualties may be worth it. Deploy these like Catapults. Near useless on walls, but can pop open gates pretty well.

Gunpowder artillery Im not as good with, but I'll give a basic overview.

Bombards are to be used like Catapults/Balistae, Mortars like Trebuchets. The Culverins, Serpentines and whatnot are more like ballistae. Most of them *Except Mortars* are best in front of your lines, then run them back before the enemy kills your crew.

Good luck, hope it helps

[simplicissimus]

I haven't tried it yet -and perhaps it would be an exploit- but would be curious to learn if in a defensive siege, one can push heavy equipment just outside the gates, have the crew leave it (ALT+click), blocking the path of the enemy ram.

[redhawk13]

I've found artillery to be very useful while fighting against England as Wales. I don't like sending my cavalry against their archers because the English cavalry can usually whip them, so I use catapults instead. That way my own archers and skirmishers can concentrate their fire on the enemy infantry/cavalry, where it will be the most useful.

[Mythlacar]

Simplicissimus, I dont think it'd be possible to put the equipment out in the right spot, that and I've seen a ram basically walk through Ballistae that were dropped before. Might work with Trebuchets, but those can't fit through the gates anyway hehe.

[Xamt]

the only two uses of fielding artillery in open battles are:

1) against heavy archer armies: with your longer range u force them to come close to u (in even ground) and u dont have to chase them around (especially useful against armies like mongols that use a LOT of horse and foot archers)
2a) in bridge fights: the most usefull artillery here is ribault or balista. place them so that they face the bridge diagonally and have them crossfire any unit that tries to come to ur side... the casualties they cause might not be all that many (u have to pray harder for lady luck to grace u ) but the morale impact will be usefull in routing enemies.
2b) in bridge fights when the enemy has artillery: use ur artillery to take out the enemy's or he will shoot at ur units while his cross the bridge and make u give him space to deploy or suffer losses from his shots

[Gornard]

Almost all the artillary can be placed behind your lines, ballistas should be raised or to the side though and cannons should have a small gap between them and the lines to prevent injury. The likley hood is that they will be safe throughout the battle
They all serve roughly the same purpose in field battles. They will pummel approaching armies from behind your lines or can be used to weaken and bate defending armies when moved forward.
Your usually doing something wrong if your artillary gets injured in anythign other then seige defence.
The exception is ribaults which have to have a clear line of sight. Put them infront, to the side or in a space in your front line depending on the situation (i find the last one is the most universal as they are unlikley to be specifically targeted and if they are the enemy are easily surrounded.). The ribault does good damage but usaully is a fear weapon so target units likley to rout or that will get the most constant barrage before they hit your lines.
When the enemy is close have them drop the weapon and run away. If possible take them with you and move to a flank.

A note on morters is they have much reduced range relative to the culverin or the cannon. Their accuracy isn't as usefull i find. Because it artillary can do more damage to larger units, it is usually best to target many units as they approach and damage all of them somewhat. The more random fire of the cannon/culverin does the job for you and will deal more hits to the army before they reach you.

[Strom]

Artillery is best used in sallies when the enemy is besieging your cities/castles. The AI tends to go into defense mode when you sally (I imagine the AI was hacked to do this so it wouldn't get shot to pieces by your towers) and you can generally peck away at him pretty safely with cannons. Takes a lot more care with catapults/ballista but both can be pretty effective. Often backing them up with a few units of long range archers/crossbowmen is a good idea as the AI will send a couple of units forwards to kill your siege pieces, which you can then defeat in detail with your archers whilst running the artillery crew to safety.

I don't much care for trebuchets or mangonels during sallies as neither fits through city the gate (which is completely retarded). Regular ribaults don't have all that much range...

The AI appears to be able to pick up your siege pieces and use them against you, but you can't pick up the AI's abandoned pieces.

[Gornard]

The AI appears to be able to pick up your siege pieces and use them against you, but you can't pick up the AI's abandoned pieces.

I didn't know that. Is it only with crews of the same weapon type?

[Strom]

I didn't know that. Is it only with crews of the same weapon type?

I only saw it happen with Ballistas. I sallied a couple of ballistas out to attack the enemy who had buttloads of siege weaponry. I destroyed several of his ballistas before running my crews back inside the walls. Eventually, I think after his remaining ballistas ran out of ammo, the AI troops (I think ballista crews) came and picked up my abandoned ballistas and used them against me.

I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw them steal my ballistas, especially as the battle was really, really close (I was reduced to flanking with the ballista crews and fighting in the town center to stop my guys auto-routing everytime they came near the enemy) and those ballistas could have won the AI the battle (I think the AI was Teutons vs my Norwegians) if used well which, fortunately, they weren't.

[Spartan90]

Because mortars are quite accurate, and the bombard the enemy in an arc shape (eg, longbows, trebuchets), they can be used while your both sides have engaged without risking to much friendly fire.

If you can, flanking the enemy with your ballistas or cannons can cause huge casualties, as their missiles can impale entire ranks of enemy soldiers

[hull19]

Just by reading this, I've completed my fist siege very well. lost only 10% to enemies....

catapults are very good when ennemy untis try to cross a bridge of defending a hole in the wall!

Having your catapult kill the units deffending a destroyed spot of the wall instead of throwing your units in the hole is a good tactic

[Tantive]

Catapults work extremely well in open field battles. The trick is to get them somewhere slightly more elevated, even if its just higher then a reverse ditch. Bombard with fireballs the strongest or troops you'll have the most trouble with in the approach. if you're engaged, its a good idea to try and flatten the general. Even if you don't get him per se, diminishing those strong bodyguards is a good idea.

Midbattle, check for enemy morale...and the ones shaken...bombard them, and they'll start wavering or rout immediatly.

Catapults, for the Open battles, and the first reliable siege weapon to break defences.

I'de suggest ballistas to be setup in the middle of two infantry formations.


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Even if charging enemy kinda wave over your infantryline (so they touch the flanks), you can still expose them to fire ballistas, and destroy morale.
Or place em on a flank, but coverd with a good unit. But the trouble is, once you have to defend it, you can't keep shooting it into the enemy.

Also, they are quite accurate without fire in the closer range. You could target the general like that.

On the approach, they work well if you shoot at the thickest part of the formation. You can plow a ballista bolt right through.
Ballistas IMO work best in the street fights.

Trebuchet. I suggest you throw a cow first, so they'll be green by the time they reach you.

You can fling the fireballs which do allot, but you're hard pressed to get what you want to hit with fire. Good thing is, they have no trouble flinging over anything.

[The Northern Marches]

One thing I've found catapults useful for is defending during sieges. I've encountered numerous AI siege armies composed mostly of calvary and their principle strategy is basically a mass charge in through the gates once the ram's done with your gate. I usually stack my spearmen all around the entrance to hold them off and they usually do a good job, but I've started using a catapult placed just behind my own troops and facing directly at the main gate. Once the mass of enemy calvary starts pushing its way in, I have my catapult lob a few well placed shots directly into the centre of the densely packed horses. The result is extremely effective...one shot can kill a good 15/20 men at least. The odd shot may hit my own troops, but the majority of them land directly into the enemy troops and in addition to slaughtering them en masse also crumbles their morale and begin to flee. I find the cats are essentially like giant shotguns firing slugs right into the attackers.

[The Northern Marches]

On the approach, they work well if you shoot at the thickest part of the formation. You can plow a ballista bolt right through.
Ballistas IMO work best in the street fights.

I'd definitely have to agree with this too. Either while defending or attacking a city, artillery can be a really effective means to help clear out the enemy when they're densely packed in the streets.

[hitokiri2486]

I'd definitely have to agree with this too. Either while defending or attacking a city, artillery can be a really effective means to help clear out the enemy when they're densely packed in the streets.

Monster ribault, anyone?