Protestant reformation and counter-reformation?

[Pius VI VI VI]

I apologize in advance if my searches missed the answer to this one... but since the game extends to 1600 (from what I've read) how is the Protestant Reformation and Counter-Reformation handled? A battle of Protestant and Catholic clerics? Scripted events?

[jimmy spong]

yeah , i wanted to ask same

[Zephrelial]

yeah , i wanted to ask same

If I remember correctly jimmy you are aware of the historical event plans and their scripts in CAE..

However,the point that Pius brought up haven't been mentioned before...
My answer is: why not? Sounds reasonable

[Ataegina]

1600 ???

as i know is 1530

[Zephrelial]

1600 ???

as i know is 1530

Currently it's 1530,in the CAE v1.4 this will be 1600 and will most likely be that way for the rest of the CAE's progress.

[Zephrelial]

I apologize in advance if my searches missed the answer to this one... but since the game extends to 1600 (from what I've read) how is the Protestant Reformation and Counter-Reformation handled? A battle of Protestant and Catholic clerics? Scripted events?

Yes in v1.4 the game is extended 70 years,35 years in 2.0 timescale..
Since you are posting first time in CAE Pius,it's quite normal that you are unaware that with or after the v1.4 heavy scripting is waiting CAE,and chain of historical events and featuring related to those scripts...

There is a possibility that I intend to open an another seperate thread,discussing the historical design and its effects in CAE,I request that you remind this conflict there,in case I forget.

Thank you.

[Pius VI VI VI]

Yes in v1.4 the game is extended 70 years,35 years in 2.0 timescale..
Since you are posting first time in CAE Pius,it's quite normal that you are unaware that with or after the v1.4 heavy scripting is waiting CAE,and chain of historical events and featuring related to those scripts...

There is a possibility that I intend to open an another seperate thread,discussing the historical design and its effects in CAE,I request that you remind this conflict there,in case I forget.

Thank you.

Thank you for the quick and courteous answer! The first post I read was a very early one of yours stating the game would extend from 1100 to 1699! That wa a rather exciting thought but later read about the 1600 time limit.

Please, when you are "bored" feel free to extend to 1699. It would be great to be able to play CAT right up to the start date of the upcoming TW:Empires game and simply switch over to play the next 100+ years there!

On the topic of dynamic religions I cannot say muc about how the M2TW game works but it would be wonderful to have a "faction" (or more than one) akin to the Papal States representing the major Protestant movements. They may simply have clerics to start which work to proselytize their beliefs and once a regions population becomes a majority or more of their faith it switches to their faction?

I'm sure their are many ways of handling it (?). Extending into the 17th century would be ever more fascinating with the counter-reformation, the English Civil War and so much more!

Keep up the good work. I will be downloading 1.4 soon to begin playing what looks like an excellent mod to my favorite game!

[Eranshahr]

Well, how are you going to change the religions of some factions in teh middle of the game?


That thread you meantioned. Maybe it would be good to start in now and let people post historical events they know of. ( and a source)

[Zephrelial]

Well, how are you going to change the religions of some factions in teh middle of the game?


That thread you meantioned. Maybe it would be good to start in now and let people post historical events they know of. ( and a source)

Good question.Technically answering If the set_religion command that can be used in the campaign script is valid in mtw2,just like in mtw2 kingdoms..

Then there is no problem..If not this can be implemented only in a Kingdoms version CAE.

It's not the time for it now.I have other issues and other work to complete first Eranshahr,before moving on.

[jimmy spong]

Well, how are you going to change the religions of some factions in teh middle of the game?

it is not problem at all

[Cyrus_Embient]

1.4 hasn't yet been released.

Only CAE 1.3b has been released so far, i here theres a small wait until such a good mod as 1.4 will prove to be is released but yeah, i like the ideas you suggested, though i don't have any idea if thats possible, maybe with the kingdom features, cultures n all, i dunno

[Zephrelial]

Thank you for the quick and courteous answer! The first post I read was a very early one of yours stating the game would extend from 1100 to 1699! That wa a rather exciting thought but later read about the 1600 time limit.

Please, when you are "bored" feel free to extend to 1699. It would be great to be able to play CAT right up to the start date of the upcoming TW:Empires game and simply switch over to play the next 100+ years there!

On the topic of dynamic religions I cannot say muc about how the M2TW game works but it would be wonderful to have a "faction" (or more than one) akin to the Papal States representing the major Protestant movements. They may simply have clerics to start which work to proselytize their beliefs and once a regions population becomes a majority or more of their faith it switches to their faction?

I'm sure their are many ways of handling it (?). Extending into the 17th century would be ever more fascinating with the counter-reformation, the English Civil War and so much more!

Keep up the good work. I will be downloading 1.4 soon to begin playing what looks like an excellent mod to my favorite game!

You're welcome Pius.I mean which post it is,the mod info..It's incrediby outdated..Do try to ignore it please until it's updated.When setting the campaign's time limit I also took it into consideration,the status of factions's armies...

Meaning.. whether the units are sufficiently professionalized enough in terms of technology,armour,concept to be suited for and that can justify for the extra 70 years of the campaign...

According to my evaluations.. At least these factions's units are perfectly suitable.Here are the factions and unit examples as listed below:

England: Demi Lancers,Heavy Billmen,Arqubusiers,Culverin etc.
France: Gendarmes,Lancers,Aventuriers,Arqubusiers,Culverin,Voulgier etc.
HRE: Gothic Knights,Zwei Hander,Reiters etc.
Spain: Conquistadores,Dismounted Conquistadores,Tercio Pikemen,Sword and Buckler militia,musketeers etc.
Portugal: Aventuros
Sweden(1.4):Riksförestandaren Fralse,Ryttare, Modernt Svensk kavalleri etc.

The examples can be multiplied.But I believe people get the idea,if not please ask I'll elaborate...

I find it useful to remind that there is one faction slot remaining in CAE.In time the historical architecting in CAE,and their effects will shapen,for now it's hard to say anything or give promises.

Thank you for all your positive comments,and good wishes,feel free to post anytime you like on the CAE sub-forum

1.4 hasn't yet been released.

Only CAE 1.3b has been released so far, i here theres a small wait until such a good mod as 1.4 will prove to be is released but yeah, i like the ideas you suggested, though i don't have any idea if thats possible, maybe with the kingdom features, cultures n all, i dunno

I'd like to make a correction to that statement,if I may.. So far other than CAE 1.3b,many other versions had been released.Not that this little mistake matters much,just wanted to emphasize that in order to prevent any misinforming.

Changing a factions religion during a campaign is possible on Kingdoms grounds as can be seen in my Golden Horde mini-mod,but again as I said before on this very thread,on mtw2 grounds I am not sure;for I haven't tried yet.

[jimmy spong]

im going to research this tomorow morning and see a few tutorials , i'll examine kingdoms scripts and see if this could be done .imagine this : all central and western european countries are built up and expanded , and suddenly religious unrests wars .cool. Theres a bugy mod but with great ideas machiavello it messed a bit with this stuff and there are protestant temples and other stuff about protestantism . Ill see anyway

[Pius VI VI VI]

Another mod specifically targeting the Renaissance brought up handling this as a separate factios - the Schmalkaldic League. But this seems too limited in that it only addresses Lutheranism within the HRE/German provinces. For going to 1600 it would be necessary to add at least:


1. Scottish reformation (Calvinist/presbyterian)
2. The Huguenots and the French civil/religious wars
3. Henry VIII declarations of independence from Rome and subsequent difficulties. Depending on the end date some attention to the Puritans might be needed.
4. The Lutheran movement in the HRE/Germany, Sweden, and elsewhere.

As I type and think about this it seems we can boil this all down to three "factions" and cast the rest into religious "rebellion?

1. Followers of Luther (Lutherans)
2. Followers of Calvin (particularly the Huegenots)
3. Church of England (more of a political statement than tru religious movement)

The rest (Hussites, Anabaptists and more) can be relegated to "rebel" status.

The French Civil Wars of the 16th century could make a separate mod unto itself. But for the campaign game perhaps it is an "emerging faction" with a new religion. Including its own "priests" and religious buildings, etc. You could see this sprouting up in France, Geneva, Scotland (if it is an ally of France or vassal?) or any vassal/Catholic ally of France? In effect you have "France" and then "Protestant France", although the latter could very well encompass other areas as it did historically.

The idea of the Schmalkaldic League within the HRE, Sweden and perhaps other areas would then still be valid. Similar in construction to the Calvinist/Huegenot faction.

England may simply be handled by a "switch religion" command if such exists in the game or Kingdoms? Causing high levels of unrest until the appropriate structures are built and a faction leader with the right traits arises (aka Elizabeth I).

We now have three factions that are "religious leaders"

Papal States
Huegenots
Calvinists

Other factions could "choose" to align with one of the three but be very certain it makes sense to do so...if your population is Calvinist and you come back to the Catholic fold or decide to follow Luther you may be in for some trouble!

All of this would be valid until a "Peace of Westphalia" arises (historically 1648 so out of this mods time frame, but why couldn't it happen earlier?) when Princes are allowed to choose the state religion with relatively little unrest as they allow other believers to practice their way. And Calvinist/Lutheran states simply ignore the Pope who's influence is dramatically cut back

More of my 2 cents . It is a fascinating era, and extending the game beyond 1530 (you could more or less ignore the early years) makes it important to handle!

[Eranshahr]

Could you explain how Jimmy?

[jimmy spong]

thousands ( well , not thousands) of mods use that kind of triggers , campaign script...

few posts up , zepherial explained

btw , there are two potential protestant factions , england , and sweden , well scotland too but only if it survives

....... deleted

[jimmy spong]

all faction slots are already used so no more factions cant be added

well it doesnt need factions , i mean your faction is protestant and for example 64 % percent of you city population are catholic , what do you get ? that little red face showing unrest . i think it should be a event that will cause new religion and war between england , sweeden and scotland on one side , and hre milan papal states and poland on other side

the trickiest thing is - HRE , actualy france too , because in hre and france there were civil wars and , what you said - factions needed - so only solution for france and hre would be that citizens become unhapy and of course rebelions (faction slaves)

this is very coplicated thing and for begining adding new religion and new temples for this religion would be enough

[jimmy spong]

religion changing only in kingdoms . Too bad

[Zephrelial]

religion changing only in kingdoms . Too bad

Don't get disappointed instantly.. I haven't tried the command in mtw2 yet.. There is a good possibility that it may work in mtw2,too...

[jimmy spong]

i doubt ... but you check it