Templars..Wasted Faction slot.

**Byzantium** · December 15, 2007, 01:25 AM

Hold fire!! let me explain before you all dive on me. :hmmm:

I'd just like to say that i really like the idea of having this faction included in SS and i must admit i have been tempted to give them a go a few times but unless you actually play as them they are a waste of a faction slot.

In every campaign i have ever started the Templars are gone in the first 15-20 turns maximun.So while i applaud their inclusion is there really any point in having a faction that has absolutely no chance of flourishing under AI control?

The Fatamid Caliphate literally rip through the Middle East in the first 15 turns and long before i reach my first cig and cuppa break its goodnight Vienna for the Grandmaster and Co.

What do you lads reckon?

**BigJake** · December 15, 2007, 01:34 AM

maybe just merge them with KoJ.

In my game i have them sharing most of the same units as i found them both to be lacking in some areas.

**~~Echad~~** · December 15, 2007, 01:47 AM

I already put this in a suggestions topic... They are mostly the same and ones are available at the Early Era and the others at the Late one... Merging them would free up so much wanted fation slot...

**twigg** · December 15, 2007, 01:55 AM

If I remember correctly the Templars are KK's favorite faction. I highly doubt they will ever go away.

**Hereward** · December 15, 2007, 02:04 AM

They're a hell of a challenge if you're up to it.

And when the ai controls them, well yeah, they usually get wiped out quick, but I've had games were they lasted well past turn 100. Just not often. I admit I do like playing as KoJ better as you have access to templars plus other types of units. A great deal.

The wasted slot is the aztecs.

**Byzantium** · December 15, 2007, 02:07 AM

Thanks for the replies

I'm no modder so i cant comment on the mechanics of it all but from what i have read there is a faction limit and it just seems such a shame to have one wasted at present on a faction that is so unable to defend itself so early in the game when under AI control.

I suppose the problem lies in keeping it a difficult faction to play as for the many human players who enjoy it and keeping it a viable faction in its own right when under Ai control.

I'm not calling for this factions removal,i'm just looking for a way to give it a cat in hells chance.:hmmm:

**Byzantium** · December 15, 2007, 02:15 AM

Apologies for the double post but would giving them an extra province or so and the Fatamids less on start up be an option?
It's just sad to see them defeated before they've had any real impact on the game.

**zznɟ ǝɥʇ** · December 15, 2007, 02:29 AM

I think we should wait for 6.0...with the new dynamics in the east hopefully they might last a bit longer.

**Byzantium** · December 15, 2007, 02:33 AM

Aye,very true.

I was just wondering what was in store with the introduction of the new Muslim faction.

Here's to hoping

**burninglegionx** · December 15, 2007, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by The Fuzz

I think we should wait for 6.0...with the new dynamics in the east hopefully they might last a bit longer.

or get wiped out much faster

p.s. Templars are one of my fav. too, i just wish they have more late era units.

**~~Echad~~** · December 15, 2007, 03:06 AM

And Aztecs would be removed in 6.0...

**zznɟ ǝɥʇ** · December 15, 2007, 03:13 AM

Yep, always annoying when those Aztecs destroy the Templars in turn 14.

**~~Echad~~** · December 15, 2007, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by The Fuzz

Yep, always annoying when those Aztecs destroy the Templars in turn 14.

WTF are you trying to joke? Hereward said:

The wasted slot is the aztecs.

This issue is no more.

**hellfire15** · December 15, 2007, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by The Fuzz

Yep, always annoying when those Aztecs destroy the Templars in turn 14.

actually in my modded version of 5.0 ..... they DID!
biut maybe we should give them Antioch? or some italian province?

**Quark** · December 15, 2007, 04:23 AM

Byzantium
Some mods go for total realism, some for pure fantasy, with SS its the Templars.

The arguemnt about removing them because the Ai does not win with them is like saying lets remove the hobbits from a LOTR mod, because they are small and useless and will never win against the big bad orc empire. You may have noticed all the work KK has done on the loading scenes and that big knight guy on the right of the main menu.

Now I am a fan of realism and agree they would not be in a realism mod, but that is not the 'spirit' of Stainless Steal, so although I would like whatever levantine christain kingdom to survival into the 1200's as per history I would not advocate thier removal in any way. If you wanted to make them bigger, give them Antioch and Acre and make there units slightly weaker, or perhaps move them to Nicaea on Cyprus.

If you wanted to get rid of a fantasy kingdom, choose Ireland, it never was a kingdom in this period and Dublin was owned by the danes at the beginning of the game. But as said this mod is not about total realism, just what KK thinks is fun.

**Oswald von Wolkenstein** · December 15, 2007, 03:17 AM

I think the Aztecs should stay, but they should have tanks and aircraft, to give them a fighting chance.

**~~Echad~~** · December 15, 2007, 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by Oswald von Wolkenstein

I think the Aztecs should stay, but they should have tanks and aircraft, to give them a fighting chance.

Mybe ninjaZ?

**Vasquez** · December 15, 2007, 05:05 AM

I second the motion to remove Ireland and just have a series of reb controlled towns instead.

**Byzantium** · December 15, 2007, 05:36 AM

Sigh.........

@Quark.

Not really sure where your coming from here.You seemed to go off on a rant without actually reading my posts.

As i said in a previous post "I'm not calling for this factions removal..."

Nor is it about the AI winning with them,It's a question of survivability.KK has indeed done a great job with the Faction in terms of its roster etc but the simple fact is they are gone from the game in less than 30 mins of game time in every campaign i have ever started and none of the factions potential is ever realised.
As for your second point i have already raised the question of giving them a better start,again in an earlier post,either by way of more provinces and the Fatimids less.Those were just suggestions as i have no idea how that would affect the game balance in that region.

I'll say again,i want this faction in.I want to crusade to help them etc etc but as it stands they are gone before i get comfy in my chair everytime.I'm a serial restarter so i have seen this repeated time and time again.

I'm not getting hung up on realism either.I couldnt care less either way really as long as the jist of it is there.
I still stand by my original point.The Templars in the hands of the AI at present are a waste of a faction slot.

Oh and i agree with you about Ireland.