Does God want you to practice belief in him even if you really don't believe?

[Ahiga]

You shall have no other gods but me[Judaism]
There is no God but God and Muhammad is his prophet. [Islam]
Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind [Christianity]


All are core dogma to Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. The idea of one God and the reverence of him. Yet what if you just cannot bring yourself to believe in that rendition of God, yet continue to practice that religion? Someone can practice a faith they have no heart in for various reasons. To avoid social outcasting, to avoid being punished as an apostate or heretic, to play it safe in regards to the afterlife, or for other various reasons. Yet while they might fool others in that regard can we really say they are fooling God? I can't imagine an all-knowing force in the Universe as being tricked by someone practicing a few rituals when in their heart and mind they don't just doubt it but disbelieve it.

Is that person going to get punished as much as an unbeliever would? Or would God pay lip service to his or her 'deceitful belief'? I kind of feel like a God that would do so is behaving more like an earthly king and less like the creator of the Universe.

The idea for this came from my own situation - I doubt the existence of a God like Judaism's, Islam's, or Christianity's, yet if I 'converted' to either of those faiths without earnestly thinking they were true where would that put me? I am wondering what others think in regards to the idea of someone practicing a faith but not honestly believing in it. If you honestly cannot believe in God, or in a certain dogma of God, yet you practice it for various reasons, are you fooling God? Does God care if you truly believe or not but cares only if you show such belief?

[Dunecat]

Well, Paul says in Phillipians:

It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

However...

Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Nicodemus said to Him, "How can these things be?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there; and people were coming and were being baptized-- for John had not yet been thrown into prison. Therefore there arose a discussion on the part of John's disciples with a Jew about purification.

And they came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified, behold, He is baptizing and all are coming to Him." John answered and said, "A man can receive nothing unless it has been given him from heaven. "You yourselves are my witnesses that I said, 'I am not the Christ,' but, 'I have been sent ahead of Him.' "He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice So this joy of mine has been made full. "He must increase, but I must decrease. "He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth He who comes from heaven is above all. "What He has seen and heard, of that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. "He who has received His testimony has set his seal to this, that God is true. "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure.

"The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

[The Prophet]

All are core dogma to Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. The idea of one God and the reverence of him. Yet what if you just cannot bring yourself to believe in that rendition of God, yet continue to practice that religion? Someone can practice a faith they have no heart in for various reasons. To avoid social outcasting, to avoid being punished as an apostate or heretic, to play it safe in regards to the afterlife, or for other various reasons. Yet while they might fool others in that regard can we really say they are fooling God? I can't imagine an all-knowing force in the Universe as being tricked by someone practicing a few rituals when in their heart and mind they don't just doubt it but disbelieve it.

Is that person going to get punished as much as an unbeliever would? Or would God pay lip service to his or her 'deceitful belief'? I kind of feel like a God that would do so is behaving more like an earthly king and less like the creator of the Universe.

Depends if you mean "serious doubt" or basically "private disbelief".

In Islam, a person who practices Islam outwardly yet does not believe in any thing is called a "hypocrite" or "Munafiq". He is considered by Allah, in the Quran, to be vile and hated by Allah. The Quran is replete with pages of talk about the "Munafiq" during Muhammad's time and Muslims regularly accuse each other of being such when things get heated.

So as far as Islam goes, Allah really really hates people who pretend being Muslims but really are disbelievers in him in their hearts. Its the deepest puts of hell for him.

[Simetrical]

In Orthodox Judaism, the answer probably varies somewhat depending on who you ask. Some commentators say that one who doesn't believe in the core principles of Jewish faith has no share in the World to Come. Certainly he is not to be permitted to participate in public prayer services or anything like that, at least in principle.

Generally I think it would be considered a lot better to obey the commandments and not believe in God, than to ignore the commandments and not believe in God, as far as your personal spiritual welfare goes. The Bible says "love the Lord your God with all your heart", and similar things, but it doesn't clearly state that those commandments are more or less important than any others, so it's up for debate. Just do the best you can, and you'll figure out if it was good enough after you die. If it wasn't good enough, well, you'll have more troubling things to worry about than some wasted time praying while you were still alive.

[Gwendylyn]

Converting or remaining with a religion you have no faith in for social or cultural reasons is one thing. Converting or remaining with a religion you have no faith in out of fear of divine retribution is a classic example of Pascal's Wager.

If you truly do not believe in that God, why do you fear his judgment?

[basics]

Ahiga,

Very clinically I am going to say that unless a man is born again he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. These are the words of Jesus Christ and when He was asked how it is that a man can return to the womb He answered by saying that this was the work of the Spirit, never a return to the mother's womb.

In other words no man can become a Christian of his own volition. That is solely the work of God Himself and enacted in three parts. First, that Jesus Christ died for many, not all. Second that the Father draws men and women to the Son's sacrifice. And third, that the Holy Spirit convicts the recipient so that they understand why they are separated from God in the first place.

When that is done and the heart is as God says broken and contrite, the regeneration begins and is over in less time than it takes to turn on a light in a darkened room. It doesn't need years but it does take God for only God can justify.

How then can it happen for you? Simply put, the Gospel is the power of God, note that for not everyone agrees with this, the Gospel is the power of God to save. Therein is the key or keys to heaven. It is so simple, that by reading or hearing is enough in the mind of God to trigger the most wonderful of events that can happen to any human regardless of race and creed.

[Chaigidel]

I dont see a reason why god would care if you believe in it at all.

[paokmam]

You shall have no other gods but me[Judaism]
There is no God but God and Muhammad is his prophet. [Islam]
Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind [Christianity]


All are core dogma to Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. The idea of one God and the reverence of him. Yet what if you just cannot bring yourself to believe in that rendition of God, yet continue to practice that religion? Someone can practice a faith they have no heart in for various reasons. To avoid social outcasting, to avoid being punished as an apostate or heretic, to play it safe in regards to the afterlife, or for other various reasons. Yet while they might fool others in that regard can we really say they are fooling God? I can't imagine an all-knowing force in the Universe as being tricked by someone practicing a few rituals when in their heart and mind they don't just doubt it but disbelieve it.

Is that person going to get punished as much as an unbeliever would? Or would God pay lip service to his or her 'deceitful belief'? I kind of feel like a God that would do so is behaving more like an earthly king and less like the creator of the Universe.

The idea for this came from my own situation - I doubt the existence of a God like Judaism's, Islam's, or Christianity's, yet if I 'converted' to either of those faiths without earnestly thinking they were true where would that put me? I am wondering what others think in regards to the idea of someone practicing a faith but not honestly believing in it. If you honestly cannot believe in God, or in a certain dogma of God, yet you practice it for various reasons, are you fooling God? Does God care if you truly believe or not but cares only if you show such belief?

The answes is obvious.....
NO!

[Ummagumma]

"Does God want you to practice belief in him even if you really don't believe?"

If you don't believe, there is no God, therefore the question becomes redundant, surely?

"Do others want you to believe (or show belief) in God if you don't really believe?" would be a more accurate question. The answer to that question would be determined by your direct society - Family, Friends and cultural influences.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

"Does God want you to practice belief in him even if you really don't believe?"

If you don't believe, there is no God, therefore the question becomes redundant, surely?

"Do others want you to believe (or show belief) in God if you don't really believe?" would be a more accurate question. The answer to that question would be determined by your direct society - Family, Friends and cultural influences.

No, its not redundant. If there is a god in the end, but you never believed, would you get some heaven points if, even while you didn't believe, you prayed?

[Ummagumma]

No, its not redundant. If there is a god in the end, but you never believed, would you get some heaven points if, even while you didn't believe, you prayed?

Oh, I see. I would doubt it, as there would be sincerity there. Would you get 'heaven points' (I like that phrase) deducted for following the wrong one, even if you didn't really believe it?

[Chaigidel]

honestly I dont think god cares what you believe, we all get the same reward.

[Felixion]

What "God" thinks doesn't really matter, does it?

What matters is whether or not you can convince yourself that you are going to heaven because you spend a lot of time reading a book, or on your knees. It's all there for your own mental well being and piece of mind, not God's.

He's ****ing God, what does he care if he has to throw you into hell?

[green tea]

For me, there are two possible solutions.

First: There is no god. So if I pretend to be religious, I am just a liar. May help with being a politician.

Second: God made me just the way I am, that is, a disbeliever to every religion. If I now pretend to be a believer, I act against the will of God. Can`t be the solution.

[boofhead]

I think if a person wants to believe, but is having difficulty with commitment or is doubting to the point of thwarting himself, then there is no harm in "faking it until you make it". Go through the motions, pray etc, and faith will come.

But for those not interested or hardcore disbelievers what would be the point? Why would they be pretending? To impress others? To impress God (pfffftt) who knows our hearts? For something to do? Out of boredom? WTF?

[Maverick]

If you honestly cannot believe in God, or in a certain dogma of God, yet you practice it for various reasons, are you fooling God? Does God care if you truly believe or not but cares only if you show such belief?

You're asking if a god you don't believe in cares what you believe :hmmm:is this a serious question?

[Sadreddine]

The idea for this came from my own situation - I doubt the existence of a God like Judaism's, Islam's, or Christianity's, yet if I 'converted' to either of those faiths without earnestly thinking they were true where would that put me? I am wondering what others think in regards to the idea of someone practicing a faith but not honestly believing in it. If you honestly cannot believe in God, or in a certain dogma of God, yet you practice it for various reasons, are you fooling God? Does God care if you truly believe or not but cares only if you show such belief?

Funnily enough, we read in Surah Hujuraat verse 14:

"The Bedouins say: 'We have believed'. Say to them 'You have not believed, say instead 'We have accepted Islam' for true belief has not entered into your hearts. But if you obey God and his Messenger you will not lose any of your good deeds for verily God is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful".

This verse made reference of the bedouins who had accepted Islam as a rather political allegiance in times of the Prophet (s) rather than having sincere faith in it. They had adopted the rituals, just like you suggest, but were not sincere believers. I understand that the permissivity of this verse towards such practicioners with no faith rests conditioned to the last part for, if they "do good deeds" they are in fact getting themselves closer to God, which would eventually result in genuine, authentic faith.

Such a person is not an hypocrite, it's a different thing in Quranic terminology. So the statement:

In Islam, a person who practices Islam outwardly yet does not believe in any thing is called a "hypocrite" or "Munafiq". He is considered by Allah, in the Quran, to be vile and hated by Allah. The Quran is replete with pages of talk about the "Munafiq" during Muhammad's time and Muslims regularly accuse each other of being such when things get heated.

So as far as Islam goes, Allah really really hates people who pretend being Muslims but really are disbelievers in him in their hearts. Its the deepest puts of hell for him.

Is an approximation, but incorrect, to your case. An hypocrite in Quranic terminology is one who has really believed in the first place (ie was a genuine muslim), but believes no more and yet pretends to do so as to not raise suspicions about that. The Quranic hypocrites were those ex-muslims who actively opposed the Ummah they had abandoned, and secretly plotted against them in favour of their enemies to destroy Islam. For that, they had commited the most hideous of crimes and are expected to be the dwellers of the deepest hell.

[The Prophet]

Is an approximation, but incorrect, to your case. An hypocrite in Quranic terminology is one who has really believed in the first place (ie was a genuine muslim), but believes no more and yet pretends to do so as to not raise suspicions about that.

Yes, thats true. Of course that reveals more about their Prophet than it does about them. Surely you can't blame a person for being a "hypocrite" if being honest about your return to disbelief means that Mr. Muhammad will quite literally chop your head off.

When intellectual honesty results in death, you will naturally breed hypocrites. And the only person to blame would be the dogmas of Muhammad and his faith.

The Quranic hypocrites were those ex-muslims who actively opposed the Ummah they had abandoned, and secretly plotted against them in favour of their enemies to destroy Islam. For that, they had commited the most hideous of crimes and are expected to be the dwellers of the deepest hell.

Actually this reveals alot of the nature of the Islamic mindset. What you just characterized is what people in the west call "dissent". Of course, once again, Islam and the Prophet Muhammad leave Muslims no choice but to be such 'traitors' since honesty in your personal beliefs is frowned upon and saying "hey guys, I tried but I really think this religion is crap" would lead to getting, once again, your head chopped off.

[Sadreddine]

Actually this reveals alot of the nature of the Islamic mindset. What you just characterized is what people in the west call "dissent". Of course, once again, Islam and the Prophet Muhammad leave Muslims no choice but to be such 'traitors' since honesty in your personal beliefs is frowned upon and saying "hey guys, I tried but I really think this religion is crap" would lead to getting, once again, your head chopped off.

You haven't understood what I said, or maybe chose to pretend you didn't. Sometimes I think your posts are more provoking than honest in respect to what you really think. Anyway...for the sake of avoiding my point being distorted with empty rethorics again: Hypocrites, in Quranic terminology, are those who pretend to be muslims and actively undermine Islam from within, siding themselves with those who try to destroy it (read "them" muslims).

They are not those who leave Islam because they grow "intellectually honest" about their beliefs. And about aposthasy, you won't find it regulated by death in the Qur'an, as you perfectly know. I'm not engaging however in another off-topic discussion about the matter in the hadith.

So in a sense, and try to get this on your head and stop playing in rethorics, hypocrites are apostates who do not declare openly their apostasy, but work within the Ummah to destroy it and its practicioners, pretending to be muslims. The worst enemy is the enemy within. See the difference between a normal, peaceful, reflexive apostate, and those? I'm sure you do.

[Ummon]

You shall have no other gods but me[Judaism]
There is no God but God and Muhammad is his prophet. [Islam]
Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind [Christianity]


All are core dogma to Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. The idea of one God and the reverence of him. Yet what if you just cannot bring yourself to believe in that rendition of God, yet continue to practice that religion? Someone can practice a faith they have no heart in for various reasons. To avoid social outcasting, to avoid being punished as an apostate or heretic, to play it safe in regards to the afterlife, or for other various reasons. Yet while they might fool others in that regard can we really say they are fooling God? I can't imagine an all-knowing force in the Universe as being tricked by someone practicing a few rituals when in their heart and mind they don't just doubt it but disbelieve it.

Is that person going to get punished as much as an unbeliever would? Or would God pay lip service to his or her 'deceitful belief'? I kind of feel like a God that would do so is behaving more like an earthly king and less like the creator of the Universe.

The idea for this came from my own situation - I doubt the existence of a God like Judaism's, Islam's, or Christianity's, yet if I 'converted' to either of those faiths without earnestly thinking they were true where would that put me? I am wondering what others think in regards to the idea of someone practicing a faith but not honestly believing in it. If you honestly cannot believe in God, or in a certain dogma of God, yet you practice it for various reasons, are you fooling God? Does God care if you truly believe or not but cares only if you show such belief?

Actually, it is "You shall have no other God but me" for Christians as well.

Said this, if you don't believe, but practice an outward reverence, for sure it may be beneficial to you, as others have suggested according to their tradition.

On the other hand, this depends on your purpose and mind in nearing religious activities.

"Does God want you to practice belief in him even if you really don't believe?"

If you don't believe, there is no God, therefore the question becomes redundant, surely?

You mean "there is no God if you are right"...