Mercantile Effectiveness

[UhOhIt'sAnArrow]

So i've been wondering for a while if merchants are really worth their time. I think they take up about 50 florins per turn, don't quote me on that, and I can never seem to get any real money from them. I mean if you want to spend the 10 turns to get him down to Timbuktu or possibly accross the world to egypt or byzantine, then sure you can get like 200 out of him. But so many other merchants and things always seem to take him before he gets there, and hes usually so old by the time he gets there that it doesnt' make m uch difference.

So here are my questions:
What do merchants really do? Do they sell things in that area and give the profits to the king? or do they sell it to your country?

Do merchants in your lands take away some of your trade? Do they improve it? Or is there simply no affect?

What is the easiest way to enhance your merchant without really having to risk him?

Are they really even worth it?

If you can think of anything that I've missed please post.

[First_creation]

I'm not sure I know everything about merchants, but I know they have no upkeep.

I've got two merchants somewhere near the bottom of the map and between them raking up almost 1000 florins per turn.

I could probably get more from merchants but I think 1000 a turn is good.

[finsternis]

I don't know what they do for the country they are in or if they improve your trade. But i know that of you can get a merchant to be good, you can get out of him about 300 a turn for a resource that is near you. I keep my merchant near (out of trouble) and they give me from 200 to 500. I know it is not much, but believe me, 200 florins can be the difference between a negative profit and a positive one. As they gain experience, I try to move them farther away.
Seems to be working for now.

And since we are in his topic, blocking a port, does it do anything for you?
I ask because I noticed that the missions that say "block this port", they say "it won't just hurt our enemy but also fill out coffins" (not sure if it is exactly like that). Does that mean I get money from blocking?:hmmm:

[Lost Crusader]

And since we are in his topic, blocking a port, does it do anything for you?

not directly. but blocking a port may cause some other neutral port that use to trade with that port, to start trading with you instead.

[vonKrysiak]

Merchants have no upkeep and the are very VERY useful!
If you know about timbuktu thn I will save myself the time and wont explain the basics but as you probably know merchant with no skill or lvl 1 will make little or no money (lets say 40 florins per urn) merchant on level 4 will make a 100 and if you give him time or train him on other merchants he will be making 400 or more (from regular trade) if you place him on something rare like tabacco.sulfur/sugar/gold/ivory/slaves/amber they can make 1500 aturn easily. Thats enough to pay for upkeep of 10 units. Merchants are very often underestimated in my oppinion, in my campaigns on vh/vh in heavily modified version of mtw I couldnt really live without them and when a nice veteran merchant dies I always feel the loss of profit ;-(

P.S: beat me there by a few seconds finsternis ;-)

[Mithrantir]

Merchants have no upkeep and the are very VERY useful!
If you know about timbuktu thn I will save myself the time and wont explain the basics but as you probably know merchant with no skill or lvl 1 will make little or no money (lets say 40 florins per urn) merchant on level 4 will make a 100 and if you give him time or train him on other merchants he will be making 400 or more (from regular trade) if you place him on something rare like tabacco.sulfur/sugar/gold/ivory/slaves/amber they can make 1500 aturn easily. Thats enough to pay for upkeep of 10 units. Merchants are very often underestimated in my oppinion, in my campaigns on vh/vh in heavily modified version of mtw I couldnt really live without them and when a nice veteran merchant dies I always feel the loss of profit ;-(

P.S: beat me there by a few seconds finsternis ;-)

I have also noticed that not all places are the same. I play SS 4.1 and there are 3 resources of spices located around Antioch. One in Tortose region and 2 in Aleppo region.

The 2 spice resources in Aleppo give more profit per turn than the one in Tortose with the same merchant. The same goes for every resource i have tested on the map.

[Bluice]

not directly. but blocking a port may cause some other neutral port that use to trade with that port, to start trading with you instead.

Good call rep +

Do merchants in your lands take away some of your trade? Do they improve it? Or is there simply no affect?

I have always been curious of this, I always wonder whether I should try and assasinate them or put them out of business, but I'm not sure whether to put the effort in because I don't know if they actually affect your trade.

[Old Geezer]

In Kingdoms retrofit you can no longer build forts on resources to enable you to stick a lot of merchants on one site, but you can still park a unit on the spot and merge merchants into the military unit. I haven't had such a unit killed yet. When the Mongols ran a stack of such merchants off they went with the retreating unit.

Northern Italy is a great place to send new merchants to hang out so they can take over rival merchants who pass through the area regularly.

Early in the game merchants are quite expensive for the return that you get. They start to be rather productive about turn 50 and by then the percentage of income recieved from trade should have increased dramatically.

[finsternis]

In Kingdoms retrofit you can no longer build forts on resources to enable you to stick a lot of merchants on one site, but you can still park a unit on the spot and merge merchants into the military unit. I haven't had such a unit killed yet. When the Mongols ran a stack of such merchants off they went with the retreating unit.

Northern Italy is a great place to send new merchants to hang out so they can take over rival merchants who pass through the area regularly.

Early in the game merchants are quite expensive for the return that you get. They start to be rather productive about turn 50 and by then the percentage of income recieved from trade should have increased dramatically.

wow, I did not know I could do that!

[Ivo6ata]

I dont know if you noticed it,but when i was playing the Crusaders Campaign-i was making a really good money from merchants-my best was on Kerak's golden mines-1500 or something,so when i conquered Egypt while played Kingdom of Jerusalem my overall merchant trade was 8000 or something like that,but at this point on M2TW i can't see no advantage of making merchants:hmmm:

[zeuxis the mighty]

just send merchants to timbuktu or the new world, they're well worth the investment, I've had lvl. 7-9 merchants make 500+ easy.

[UhOhIt'sAnArrow]

I'd still like to know what affect merchants in your area have on you though, anybody know?

[Skouser]

not sure but definitely get them - i make 150k a turn from merchant trade.. yes that 150,000 florins from JUST my merchants .

As old geezer said you can build a fort on top of the resources and then put 20 merchants on one spot. So all you need to do is capture timbukto and the other province to the west of it an then build forts on top of the gold and ivory. Put 20 merchants in each fort and you make soooo much cash.

p.s. i've turned off merchant limits

[NobleNick]

I will second the answer that was given about merchant upkeep: There is none. So the total cost of a merchant is 500 florins (or is it 550? I forget).

Merchants can help you in several different ways, but for a moment let's just talk about one: direct profit from merchant trade.

For merchants to be worthwhile, IMO, they should return, on average, 100% of the investment. This means they should make at least 2x500 = 1000 florins over their life. I require such a high rate of return on investment, because 500 florins at the start of the game is worth a lot more than 500 florins at mid-game. Since the average career of a merchant is about 20 turns, they should average 1000/20 = 50 florins/turn. In order to get this kind of dough you need to look for resources which are some distance from your capital.

This does not mean you need to find a resource worth 50/turn right off the bat, since your merchant will gain experience and make the resource worth more. I typically take 30/turn as the minimum acceptable starting point.

The experience of your merchant directly affects how much profit he can squeeze out of a resource. Building as many merchants as possible in a single city, as well as market upgrades, should lead to an offer for a merchants' guild and hopefully a master merchants' guild. These institutions allow you to build more experienced merchants.

Building a fort on a resource, in which to put your merchant is okay, IMO; since that is what happens in real life. But remember that forts cost 500 florins plus army upkeep for the turns in which the army is idle, easily tripling or quadrupling the cost of setting up your merchant in business. So now you need to recoup 150 florins a turn (or likely much more) in order to make your investment pay. Stacking multiple merchants in one fort is, again IMO, an exploit.

So, where are the high value items? Depends on where your capital is. As England, I got a pittance for textiles; but as the Moors, those same resources are worth hundreds. But there are some resources which seem to be always valuable....

If you take a spy down south through the pass which is just to the east of Marakesh, and keep going due south to the bottom of the map, you will find the rebel town of Timbuktu, surrounded by several lucrative trade sites: slaves, ivory and gold. My mid-grade (eh, say 5-star) merchant is pulling in 897 florins per turn on gold. You can capture Timbuktu for even more money. If you then hook your spy around to the west, towards the Atlantic coast, you will uncover more trade sites and another rebel town near the coast waiting to be added to your treasures. If you continue north along the coast with your spy, you will hopefully uncover enough terrain and sea to be able to sail men and supplies into this lucrative land, instead of having to follow the slow desert route, starting at Marakesh, which I just described.

(Maybe it is a bug, but it seems as though there are places my guys can not go, in the southern desert, until a spy has trail blazed a path.)

There are several cities (forgot names) which are due east (eh, maybe slightly south of due east) of Antioch, against the eastern border of the map, which have some very nice resources (acckk, also forgot resource names). And there are some nice ones near Antioch, itself.

Another lucrative pastime for merchants is acquiring other merchants. The benefit of this is fivefold: You get the seized merchant's assets; your merchant gains experience (if he survives); you clear the field of competition; you deny the opponents income; and you eliminate merchants which might eventually prey on your own merchants. For good results, prey only on merchants which are AT LEAST 2 experience levels below your merchant.

[loquar]

Following on from noblenicks thorough explanation of merchant trade there is the question of merchant aquisition.

If you have the time and energy to do it then siezing other merchants holdings can be very very profitable..

Get a merchant up to 3-4+ skill level then go sieze, it wont always work and sometimes you will lose the merchant but if you target lower level merchants you can get a high percentage of success.

Normally I get about 1200+ from siezing an enemy merchants assets, easily covering in 1 turn the 1000 lifetime return that nick mentioned. If your lucky 1 mid level merchant can make many thousands without realy travelling far at all.

I dont tend to do this as I am more of a warring player and cant be bothered with it much. Sometimes ive played a campaign and not hired a single merchant. But i have played slow careful roleplay campaigns where ive done it, other than that its not for me. But if it suits your play style then it can be very rewarding.

[antaeus]

edit: just read above and its already been said..

[Hospitallar_Knight]

I am playing the latest SS mod as the byzantines.

In regards to Merchants my strategy is to send a group to a particular area weather it be Northern Italia or the holy lands. I get this group of merchants to secure the same type of resource. As an example i sent 4 merchants to the holy land and got them to secure a cotton resource each, they all were producing 400+. Currently i have textile merchants in northern italy sugar and cotton merchants in the holy land, marble merchants in greece and a single gold merchant in Bosnia. I'm raking in 8000 florins per turn from only merchants.

I dont know if gaining a sort of monopoly on a resource increases income for each but i beleive it does from what i have gathered.

Another strategy i use is to only recruit merchants from one particular settlement, this will allow the building of a merchants guild in that settlement increasing the merchantile skill of every merchant trained there.

Hospitallar

[NobleNick]

I am playing the latest SS mod ...I dont know if gaining a sort of monopoly on a resource increases income for each but i beleive it does from what i have gathered...

I don't know if it does for SS mod, but it does for vanilla 1.2 M2TW. If all resources of the same type are controlled within a region, each merchant trading that resource within that region gets a bonus on their trade.

[pwijnands]

It also helps if you use your merchants to cover trade items that have more than one image on the map. If your faction controls two or more of the same resource in the same region, you get a monopoly. A monopoly gives your merchants the Monopolist traits and adds to their finance rating. Just make sure that no other faction's merchant is trading the same resource in the same region.

[loquar]

Talking of monopolising an area I find the danish very good for this. Sit a fleet (1 ship will do) on one of the arrows between the islands between the capital and scandinavia. No merchants can pass and their only way to reach scandinavia is by sea.

As there are about 15 resources in a very small area there it makes for an excellent little safe merchant area.